PokerStars: Allow Datamining

[freecard4all]

Hey Blackize, don"t you want to reapeat the fairy story how the only interest of OP are fair games? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Surprise Surprise, for the billionth time in this thread, some moron is overstating the amount of information gained from having datamined hands.

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Surprise Surprise, for the billionth time in this thread, some moron is trying to convince himself that data mining has no advantage.
Yet still beseeching for it like a sex-starved rhinoceros.

[freecard4all]

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Come on poker stars, open it up. Let us help you maintain your reputation.


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In the way it was maintained for fulltilt and absolute? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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thumbs up!

[apefish]

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People saying there wouldn't be benefits to it in instances like this are wrong.

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the ONLY benefit of datamining to the overall game is catching bots and the occasional cheater, which is an incredibly rare instance (not them existing, just them getting caught from a dateminer). And its only a benefit if the site itself isnt actively trying to do the same. Since I have faith in stars, im not worried about it. Stars isnt FPT or AP, its an actually well run company.

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fair points.

[maxima191]

Guess you haven't heard about AP being investigated

[blackize]

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Hey Blackize, don"t you want to reapeat the fairy story how the only interest of OP are fair games?

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Based on his OP I reasonably inferred that to be the case.

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Surprise Surprise, for the billionth time in this thread, some moron is trying to convince himself that data mining has no advantage.
Yet still beseeching for it like a sex-starved rhinoceros.

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The advantage datamining provides is TINY. I know because I have datamined in the past. I stopped because it wasn't worth it. You keep acting like it's some HUGE advantage and will allow players to go from 10 to 20 tabling which just isn't the case.

And you also ignore that basically nobody who wants datamined hands is abiding by Poker Stars rules.

Stars needs to either change their observed HHs to make datamining more difficult or explicitly allow it.

I'm on the side of allowing it because I think the advantage gained is tiny and I like the increased probability of catching cheaters.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

I have never actually read a thread and wanted someone to be banned until this one, wow, someone kill this troll.

Anyhow, I agree with OP completely. This is one of the first times I have actually felt really strongly about an information-wants-to-be-free kind of issue like this, there is clearly an enormous benefit in a lot of people being allowed to mine Stars, and pretty small downside (as has been pointed out by the non-mouth-breathers in this thread).

I think it might be interesting to get someone like Steven Levitt (Freakonomics author) to write up something about this for Stars or whatever, he's into poker lately, and I have a feeling this is the exact kind of issue he'd agree with.

[freecard4all]

Funny. Blackize, isn't THIS SOFTWARE the real reason you want to allow datamining? What did you mean by the second post of the thread?

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The advantage datamining provides is TINY.

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HoldemManager without enough hands is very like the old PT+PAHUD ... can you repeat what you said in that thread?
Wasn't it something like this?:

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So sick, I can't wait to get this.

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[freecard4all]

I'm getting sick of all this bull-[censored] how datamining will help the games to be fair but I just couldn't resist.
Guess who wrote this:

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I want to see which people are 3betting a lot. Now when I sort by 3bet%, most of the top spots are occupied by maniacs. I'm more concerned though with the regulars who are 3betting light.

I'd like this to display something like this.

Villain1 VPIP 14% 3bet 8%
Villain2 VPIP 14% 3bet 7%
Villain3 VPIP 20% 3bet 10%

The only way I can see right now to weed out the maniacs is to set my minimum # of hands filter higher.

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Don't you know? the answer is HERE


Yup, that's definitely that kind of fuctions that don't require data mining. Just TINY, isn't it?

[catlover]

Folks, we can have it both ways.

There is a plan which would both keep people from having a huge advantage by datamining, and allow people to use datamining to catch cheaters.

It is this: One year after a hand is played, everything about that hand becomes public knowledge, including the players' hole cards.

Now, you can't get too much of an advantage from this, because it will only tell you how someone was playing a year ago -- not how they play today.

At the same time, you can use it to catch cheaters -- though there will be an unfortunate 1-year delay.

[blackize]

Freecard,

You're a moron. Holdem Manager is a great piece of software mostly because of the unprecedented access it gives me to reviewing my own game. Frankly, I just don't have the time to review datamined hands in depth.

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I'm getting sick of all this bull-[censored] how datamining will help the games to be fair but I just couldn't resist.

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How does datamining make the games unfair? If Stars amends their T&Cs so that datamining is allowed, then everyone is on a level playing field. As is, only those willing to break the rules get datamined hands.

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I want to see which people are 3betting a lot. Now when I sort by 3bet%, most of the top spots are occupied by maniacs. I'm more concerned though with the regulars who are 3betting light.

I'd like this to display something like this.

Villain1 VPIP 14% 3bet 8%
Villain2 VPIP 14% 3bet 7%
Villain3 VPIP 20% 3bet 10%

The only way I can see right now to weed out the maniacs is to set my minimum # of hands filter higher. [ QUOTE ]


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Yup, that's definitely that kind of fuctions that don't require data mining. Just TINY, isn't it?

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1) You've claimed numerous times that you can get all the info you need just by playing regularly so you can't claim that datamining is necessary to do this sort of analysis.

2) The edge gained from this sort of analysis is very small. Knowing which regulars are 3betting a little more than they should is never going to provide a significant edge because situations where I can exploit that knowledge just don't come up all that frequently AND exploiting them greatly increases volatility.

3) I have datamined Stars in the past. I don't datamine now because it isn't worthwhile. However, Stars stance on the issue has no bearing on whether or not I will datamine. That depends entirely on how easy it is to do, the value of the edge, and the consequences of ignoring Stars stance.

Since the value of datamined hands is very low, it just isn't worth the time for me to do it.