Watch Out For Ron Paul - Page 10

RedBean · #91 10-08-2007, 05:11 AM

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The freedoms we have given up aren't stuff you can easily see.

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Ahhh....of course.

It would seem that with this being a frequent complaint, and rather easy to quantify, someone by now should have come up with a nice simple list of the freedoms that have been "taken away".

Yet everytime I see a list, it is usually chock full of false assertions.

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Government can look at financial transactions, listen in on phone calls, and pretty much anything it wants, check to see if there are any crimes, then go after people.

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How does this restrict my freedom?

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It's like cops going into everyone's house, looking for anything illegal, then getting a warrant.

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Except it's not like that, because that isn't what is happening.

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It's all kept in secret, and legalized by the patriot act and military commissions act. There's obviously no listing of all the illegal searches the government does.

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Um...if it's such a secret, then how do you know about them?

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Death of Habeus Corpus, first paragraph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ns_Act_of_2006

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Um...in the section entitled "Applicability", it talks about this only applying to non-citizens.

Bedreviter · #92 10-08-2007, 05:24 AM

There are several differences between the US and Iraq under Saddam Hussein that makes that comparison rather strange. There is not a big group of exiled Americans in China lobbying for them to overthrow the current US government, neither are there reason to believe that there are huge numbers of Americans in the US that are secretly waiting for an outside force to get rid of Bush so that they can get back freedom and get to vote.

If China got rid of the current administration you would probably not see huge numbers of Americans celebrating in the streets (or maybe you would [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) and welcoming the Chinese and hoping for a better future. Neither is it likely that China would try to establish a new democratically elected US government made up of Americans, and hoping to leave the country as soon as the new American government could take care fo the country by themselves.

China would also have a hard time getting support from the neighboring countries here to get rid of Bush, while countries in the Middle East usually saw Saddam hussein as a pain and potential threath to the relative stability in the region.

If the Catholics of the US were in total control over the government, the police, the courts and the armed forces, and used their position to suppress all other groups in the US while giving more rights to the catholics then it would be a more accurate comparison. If anyone in the US could risk being taken from their home and executed any given day based on a suspicion that they might object to the current rule of the US then it would be a different situation.

To invade a free democratic country that poses no threath to the region and to invade a dictatorship that is lead by a madman that is known to have invaded neighboring countries before and having used gas to kill villages and has a racist beleif system is in my mind completely different.

I suppose one can understand the local Iraqi resistance if you accept their reasoning and politics, and they might feel that they are fighting a battle as legitimate as the US-forces did under the Revolutionary War. But I think most people would agree that the world is a better place with a stable democratic Iraq, and therefor I see the fight to defeat the current resistance as legitimate. Those on the other side of the battle see their resistance as legitimate. Its a war, who is right and who is wrong is highly subjective, and in the end the winner gets to write the history books.

AlexM · #93 10-08-2007, 09:07 AM

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Domestic phone calls are monitored.

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All domestic calls are monitored? Or just those of people suspected of terrorist activity?

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Anyone can be detained without charges (then tortured through rendition).

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Anyone? Just anyone...for no reason?

Or is it limited to suspected terrorists and enemy combatants?

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The people who decide who "suspected terrorists" are can decide that anyone is a "suspected terrorist" so yes, anyone. I doubt it will be long before using drugs is considered terrorism and treated the same.

AlexM · #94 10-08-2007, 09:16 AM

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Is there a maximum that can be donated?

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2,300 per person. If you're going to give that kind of money, I'd save it for when he comes to your town to do a fundraiser.

To add to what Borodog saw, here's a Wall Street Journal article devoted to Paul. $5m in a quarter is impressive for a 2nd tier candidate and the money is good for getting some ink in the "horse race" articles.

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I think Congressman Paul is a nut, but for those intending to contribute, the earlier the better. The more money he raises early and the more press he gets about the money he's raising the more money he will be likely to raise.

Good luck with this guy.

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It used to be impressive. At $40 average per contributor and the majority of that being internet fueled, the Flying Spaghetti Monster could raise $5 million in a quarter if he could get on the ballot.

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Um what? So why hasn't anyone else?

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because he's the only one who's so far off base it attracts the internet lunatic fringe

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It's nice to know you consider our troops part of the "internet lunatic fringe."

sharkstevie · #95 10-08-2007, 09:22 AM

I'm not American but gooooooo Ron Paul!

elwoodblues · #96 10-08-2007, 09:37 AM

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That plus my Packers kicking the tar out of Chicago made it a happy drive

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I hope the rest of your drive went better...

RedBean · #97 10-08-2007, 09:43 AM

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The people who decide who "suspected terrorists" are can decide that anyone is a "suspected terrorist" so yes, anyone. I doubt it will be long before using drugs is considered terrorism and treated the same.

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So you are saying "anyone" can be detained without charges.....even citizens?

But, what about habeas corpus?

bdk3clash · #98 10-08-2007, 09:46 AM

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Waved to Ron Paul supporters on an overpass in Appleton, WI on my way back to college. That plus my Packers kicking the tar out of Chicago made it a happy drive (minus super tilt from James Jones!!1!11!)

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Ahahahahahaha.

Worked at the Chicago Marathon yesterday, Ron Paul supporters were handing out flyers.

xorbie · #99 10-08-2007, 09:57 AM

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The people who decide who "suspected terrorists" are can decide that anyone is a "suspected terrorist" so yes, anyone. I doubt it will be long before using drugs is considered terrorism and treated the same.

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So you are saying "anyone" can be detained without charges.....even citizens?

But, what about habeas corpus?

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Your tone implies that this is all some sort of elaborate level, but that seems not to be the case...

TomCollins · #**100** 10-08-2007, 09:57 AM

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Waved to Ron Paul supporters on an overpass in Appleton, WI on my way back to college. That plus my Packers kicking the tar out of Chicago made it a happy drive (minus super tilt from James Jones!!1!11!)

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Ahahahahahaha.

Worked at the Chicago Marathon yesterday, Ron Paul supporters were handing out flyers.

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The Ron Paul campaign is surely the strangest thing I have seen in a while. Since I was only 11 when Perot ran, would the older people chime in on how similar it is to that campaign? It seems like the Perot people were pretty hardcore supporters and did something that hadn't really been done before in 92.