|
|
#91
08-09-2007, 05:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
That verse you quoted is probably from the King James Version amirite? I understand it since I grew up on a KJV. Look it up in the New Int'l Version. It'll make alot more sense.
Now you understand why the Bible is been translated so many different ways. No, I didn't make that up. And Jesus was very clear. Like I said...look it up in the NIV & it will be easier to understand. No, I wouldn't give $10m away. That's not what he's saying. It's kinda two fold. I interpret the camel part to mean that anything is possible with God's help. The rich part meaning if you are rich in wordly possessions so that it stands between you & a personal relationship with Jesus, then you won't see the Kingdom of Heaven. In Jesus' time, the Pharisees were the wealthy ruling class of Jews & they were arrogant & pretty much hated Jesus. So he was using that as a 'springboard' if you will for a lesson. Don't misinterpret that though....I know alot of wealthy people who are extremely devout Christians. 
|
|
#92
08-09-2007, 05:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm..."liked" might not be the correct word...thought it was cornball is better. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] *sigh heavily* Were you ever in the Boy Scouts? If so, did you earn merit badges? Did they give you a merit badge in woodcarving when you were actually doing archery? Its kinda the same way with heavenly crowns. Pardon the crude analogy but since you missed it the first time.... [/ QUOTE ] I think you are missing the important point. If neither of them is any better, then bringing them up in the first place is stupid. They were only brought up to try to COUNTER the argument that we should just kill people. The only reason this is a counter is because earning these extra rewards is somehow better, so depriving these people of a chance to do that is wrong. But if earning these extra rewards is NOT better (something you yourself said) then this argument is useless and nothing more than a curious distraction.
|
|
#93
08-09-2007, 05:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The answer to the OP is pretty obvious. You cannot go around killing people because you can never be sure what they really believe. They may say they believe in Jesus but they could be lying. By killing them you have denied them a chance to truly believe. The only person you can be sure believes is yourself and I don't know what the majority of Christians now believe about suicide. (ie If the person believes does he get into heaven) Also I think the aborted babies go to heaven is a very very modern idea. Historically most people have thought they go to hell, atleast Catholics and probably more. Christians decided this was logically unfair so they changed their view. In the future they will most likely change their view on hell all together. Saying Bunny is not a Christian seems horribly un-christian to me. He says he believes in Jesus, who really cares about anything else? I don't think Jesus would. [/ QUOTE ] FWIW, babies/children go to heaven. Jesus said so mulitple times in the New Testament. That's not a 'modern' idea. [/ QUOTE ] This might be what you believe but to say it as a fact is very dishonest. The Pope is unsure and only says that their is hope to believe that they get into heaven. Maybe you should email him if it is so obvious [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] I'm very sure. I'll put the Word of God against the Pope any day of the week and twice on Sunday. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] As I have stated before in this thread...I have my own convictions about Catholics that I will not post here. [/ QUOTE ] So you want me to believe that in the Bible Jesus says very clearly that babies go to heaven and the Pope just missed it? I am pretty sure that dude has read the Bible, maybe even twice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. It makes no sense especially since the Pope obviously WANTS to agree with you. Maybe you are not as good of a Bible scholar as you seem to think? [/ QUOTE ] No idea why you would think the Pope would WANT to agree with this. It makes a lot more sense that the Pope would prefer everyone to be born hopelessly sinful. [/ QUOTE ] He said that their is reason to hope that babies can go to heaven. The Pope doesn't want to pray to a god that punishes babies for eternity any more than you do. [/ QUOTE ] The Pope wants a lot of things different from what I want, and if worshipping a God that sends babies to Heaven is the best way to get them, I highly doubt he loses much sleep.
|
|
#94
08-09-2007, 05:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ummm..."liked" might not be the correct word...thought it was cornball is better. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] *sigh heavily* Were you ever in the Boy Scouts? If so, did you earn merit badges? Did they give you a merit badge in woodcarving when you were actually doing archery? Its kinda the same way with heavenly crowns. Pardon the crude analogy but since you missed it the first time.... [/ QUOTE ] I think you are missing the important point. If neither of them is any better, then bringing them up in the first place is stupid. They were only brought up to try to COUNTER the argument that we should just kill people. The only reason this is a counter is because earning these extra rewards is somehow better, so depriving these people of a chance to do that is wrong. But if earning these extra rewards is NOT better (something you yourself said) then this argument is useless and nothing more than a curious distraction. [/ QUOTE ] Ok. Fine. Drop it then. But you're the one who asked about them in the first place!!!!
|
|
#95
08-09-2007, 05:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Ummm..."liked" might not be the correct word...thought it was cornball is better. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] *sigh heavily* Were you ever in the Boy Scouts? If so, did you earn merit badges? Did they give you a merit badge in woodcarving when you were actually doing archery? Its kinda the same way with heavenly crowns. Pardon the crude analogy but since you missed it the first time.... [/ QUOTE ] I think you are missing the important point. If neither of them is any better, then bringing them up in the first place is stupid. They were only brought up to try to COUNTER the argument that we should just kill people. The only reason this is a counter is because earning these extra rewards is somehow better, so depriving these people of a chance to do that is wrong. But if earning these extra rewards is NOT better (something you yourself said) then this argument is useless and nothing more than a curious distraction. [/ QUOTE ] Ok. Fine. Drop it then. But you're the one who asked about them in the first place!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Right, but obviously I asked for this specific reason. Stu made it sound like there was some benefit to living and achieving milestones or something, like you get super bonus rewards in Heaven. You agreed with him, and listed them. I then pointed out that these weren't actually BENEFITS, at least not by any reasonable definition of benefit, they were just meaningless descriptors. I asked about them, you answered, the matter was resolved (IMO) and it turns out OP is still correct, so far.
|
|
#97
08-09-2007, 08:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
Right, but obviously I asked for this specific reason. Stu made it sound like there was some benefit to living and achieving milestones or something, like you get super bonus rewards in Heaven. [/ QUOTE ] Hi Vhawk, I didn't make it sound like anything, I flat out and said your heavenly reward is porpotional to how well you lived your life on earth(at least according to Catholics). [ QUOTE ] I then pointed out that these weren't actually BENEFITS, at least not by any reasonable definition of benefit, they were just meaningless descriptors [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry Vhawk, you didn't even come close to making that point...at least I couldn't find it. I guess you tried when said [ QUOTE ] Rather than a cup or a pitcher, try my stomach versus someone with a much larger stomach. Both are full, but his contains more food. So what? In your example, it is implied that that extra absolute amount of water is useful for something. But in Heaven, it is manifestly NOT useful for anything, else the cup would suffer [/ QUOTE ] But your thinking is flawed. The extra water(the metaphor for joy in heaven) the pitcher recieves is useful to the pitcher because it fills the pitcher up. A full pitcher can experience complete joy while a partially filled pitcher can not. If you tried to put into a cup an equal amount of water that is contained in the pitcher, the cup would over flow. The water that overflows from the cup has no use to the cup(because the cup cannot contain it) but you cannot claim that extra water is useless(because it is useful to the pitcher). If the cup and pitcher are both full they both experience complete joy and cannot want to experience any additional joy. The pitcher, however, experiences more joy than the cup because it has more capacity to experience joy than the cup. I confident that what I was taught as a catholic and what I have learned from DS, pretty much destroys all the arguments you and the OP have made. I'll let those arguments stand on there own now, I'm done with this thread. Here's your chance to get the last word in. Stu
|
|
#98
08-09-2007, 10:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
it turns out OP is still correct, so far. [/ QUOTE ] It seems to me he's still incorrect and I'm surprised we diagree. Can you outline what you think his correct argument is? (I know it's been repeated countless times, I'm just not sure what you're defending)
|
|
#99
08-09-2007, 10:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
I honestly don't remember even reading the OP but it is complete lunacy. Why people even dream such questions is beyond me. But here's my $.02.
1. What he is proposing is a sin, immoral, & a capital crime punishable by death. Next. 2. If the person is a born again Christian & guaranteed to go to heaven, when they die is immaterial. The proposed 'corruption' is immaterial. So you would you be killing an innocent person for no reason other than to get them to heaven a nanosecond sooner. Thanks but no thanks. I'll go when God calls me.
|
|
#100
08-09-2007, 11:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Your duty to kill those guaranteed to go to Heaven
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't remember even reading the OP but it is complete lunacy. Why people even dream such questions is beyond me. But here's my $.02. 1. What he is proposing is a sin, immoral, & a capital crime punishable by death. Next. 2. If the person is a born again Christian & guaranteed to go to heaven, when they die is immaterial. The proposed 'corruption' is immaterial. So you would you be killing an innocent person for no reason other than to get them to heaven a nanosecond sooner. Thanks but no thanks. I'll go when God calls me. [/ QUOTE ] 1. Cool, who cares? 2. No, he is killing people who are NOT born-agains, they are children who have not yet had a chance. What % of children go on to become saved as adults, in your opinion? Well, if its less than 100%, this method is FAR better.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
