Jerry Fallwell Gravely Ill

[Zurvan]

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What would you think if Osama Bin Laden were killed? How about Kim Jong Il? I'm not saying Falwell is as bad as those guys, but he sure has gone out of his way to be a giant douche and make other people unhappy.

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The difference between Falwell & those two is bin laden & kim jong il are personall responsible for thousands of deaths.

Falwell has very unpopular and (IMO) immoral viewpoints, that he broadcasts nationally. But, the fact is, the people that agree with him now already agreed with him when he started. Otherwise, they'd have reacted to him the same with we do.

[pryor15]

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Zurvan,

i'm not sure you fully comprehend his sphere of influence in this country

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That's entirely possible. I may be missing something.

But public idiocy is not a crime against humanity.

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He founded the Moral Majority, which has done a lot of negative things politically, and with great success.

he took credit for getting Reagan elected. there's some hyperbole there, but not much.

he was influential in the rise to power of Newt Gingrich, et al. in the 90's

if he gets credit for Reagan, he gets some credit for both Bush Presidencies.

get where this is going?

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It seems you're taking it in a direction where you're happy for the death of somebody who has different polical views than you have. Specifically, you're happy that a social conservative has died.

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i'm implying that if he's going to take credit for Reagan, he should take some of the blame for Iraq

i'm happy he's gone because he was a hugely destructive force in this country, and perverted religion for his own political opinions and preferences. to me, that's despicable. i could care less what those opinions are.

i was just pointing out how influential he's been

[Homer]

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Firstly, I'm not relieved he's dead, I'm happy he's dead.

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Thanks for clarifying that important point.

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And if his family is sad to see him go, then they're pieces of [censored] just like him.

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It's perfectly natural for family to feel some level of mourning when another member dies, regardless of how flawed that person is. It doesn't mean they support his ideas.

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It would be like saying "well, they were bad dudes, but you gotta feel for Saddam right now" when we wasted Uday and Qusay. And if his family aren't total dbags, then they're as happy to see the SOB dead as I am.

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Not everything is as cut and dried as you're making it out to be.

All I know is that saying "LOL at his family" makes me sad. Taking this out on anyone but the departed seems like a low blow.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Falwell is probably in the top 10 of most destructive Americans in the past 100 years. His views helped divide our country and alienated us around the world. His words have undoubtably led to more people hating us, same with Pat Robertson. Falwell also completely screwed up the Republican party with his Religious Right BS. His death is a massive step forward for our country, and I don't fell bad saying or thinking that.

[Boris]

pj - do you believe morality is relative or do you believe that some people have longer lists of acts/beliefs they fundamentally disagree with? And when I say fundamentally disagree with I mean you wouldn't want to be associated with a person who held such beliefs or did such acts.

related question - what is moral relativism?

[Blarg]

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See, here's the thing: I don't believe he did the best he could.

I think he did. I think being a big fat liar, a hypocrite and a hugely destructive moron was the best he could do. Whether he was a narcissist, a megolomaniac or just an incredibly power-hungry ass, he pursued that because that's what made sense to him.

I should explain - I think everyone does the best they could: Falwell, Jesus, Hitler, Mao, Buddha, Stalin.

If I had been born Jerry Falwell, with his parents, in his genes and his life experiences, then it's likely I would have made the same hugely destructive choices. I'm not going to celebrate that, but I will acknowledge that what he did was what he truly saw as the limits of his own possibilities in this world.

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This is way too deterministic a view for me. You seem to take free will and accountability out of life's equation completely. If they were not at issue in a person's life, why would anyone care about anything at all?

[Dynasty]

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i'm implying that if he's going to take credit for Reagan, he should take some of the blame for Iraq

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It's a substantial leap to say that Falwell's influence in getting President Reagan elected in 1980 should mean he's responsible for a war started more than two decades afterwards.

BTW, many of us think the election of President Reagan was a good thing.

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i'm happy he's gone because he was a hugely destructive force in this country, and perverted religion for his own political opinions and preferences.

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I have little doubt that far more people feel Falwell had a direct postitive impact on their life than feel he had "hugely descructive" impact on them or the country as a whole.

Falwell didn't pervert religion. He expressed the beliefs that he and tens of millions of Americans genuinely have.

[Blarg]

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What would you think if Osama Bin Laden were killed? How about Kim Jong Il? I'm not saying Falwell is as bad as those guys, but he sure has gone out of his way to be a giant douche and make other people unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference between Falwell & those two is bin laden & kim jong il are personall responsible for thousands of deaths.

Falwell has very unpopular and (IMO) immoral viewpoints, that he broadcasts nationally. But, the fact is, the people that agree with him now already agreed with him when he started. Otherwise, they'd have reacted to him the same with we do.

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You don't believe people can be persuaded? Or that, when one of the flock but in doubt, they can lured back to ideas that aren't particularly good ones?

[mjkidd]

"It's perfectly natural for family to feel some level of mourning when another member dies, regardless of how flawed that person is. It doesn't mean they support his ideas."

I would certainly extend condolences to, say, a hypothetical son of Jerry Falwell who recognizes his many flaws. It would be very hard to have such a dbag for a father, and his death would be difficult and conflicting.

I think it is far more likely that Jerry Fallwell Jr. will be giving Sr's eulogy and sincerly talking about what a great man he was and how proud he is to be following in Sr's footsteps.

[censored] them all.

[Blarg]

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i'm implying that if he's going to take credit for Reagan, he should take some of the blame for Iraq

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It's a substantial leap to say that Falwell's influence in getting President Reagan elected in 1980 should mean he's responsible for a war started more than two decades afterwards.

BTW, many of us think the election of President Reagan was a good thing.

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i'm happy he's gone because he was a hugely destructive force in this country, and perverted religion for his own political opinions and preferences.

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I have little doubt that far more people feel Falwell had a direct postitive impact on their life than feel he had "hugely descructive" impact on them or the country as a whole.

Falwell didn't pervert religion. He expressed the beliefs that he and tens of millions of Americans genuinely have.

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The same thing could have been, and was, said about Hitler.

Lots of people being in agreement with ideas doesn't vouch for the worth of the ideas, nor of the people having them.