Online tournament integrity compromised - my email to Lee Jones

[McMelchior]

Man, this discussion is tiresome.

If it wasn’t such an unfair argument, I would claim that I'm beginning - in spite of their assurances to the opposite effect - to believe that those who try to subdue the discussion and play down the effect of the cheating are actually cheaters trying to protect their income. But it’s not fair in discussions to defame anybody who disagrees with you, so I won’t do that. I’ll just say: To the uninformed third party they sure come across like it.

Poker - and especially tournament poker - is a game based on strict and explicit rules that allows for marginal skill advantages to be turned into a profit.

Tamper with the rules and IT'S NOT POKER ANYMORE.

Maybe a few "honest" players really believe they can overcome the effect of the changed odds caused by the cheating. Maybe the best of them actually can!

That's not going to level the field for the majority of casual, newbie, learning, fishy or whatever players.

With somebody else’s (was it Sirio11’s?) words, these players are the bottom of the poker feeding chain, and they are there because they're lead to believe they have a chance to beat the game - or an opportunity to learn to beat the game.

We now know that is not true. In fact, it's a lie. They have no chance.

Preserving and protecting this lie – instead of addressing the issue and putting minds together to resolve it - is hurting the poker community, it's hurting our long term chance of making a profit from poker, and it's hurting our chance of recovering from the demise of online poker that will follow when the scope of the cheating becomes known outside of the narrow boundaries of the online communities like 2+2 and pocketfives. CSC is right - a 20 year old winning $140,000 in online poker by cheating is too big a story for the tabloids not to get out and receive major exposure. And - it's strong ammo for the anti-online-gambling lobby.

I strongly believe it's possible to curtail the cheating using technological and administrative solutions. Nobody is happy about it, but we've all (or most of us) already jumped through hoops to play. First it was the end of credit card deposits (for US based players) – we had to start using intermediaries, go through the trouble and trust unknown online entities with our hard earned money. Well, we got over it, and today it’s not an issue. Then some sites started requiring faxes with IDs for new accounts … another ordeal, that in the end didn’t seem to impede the recruiting of new players to any major extent. All we need is a way of monitoring who’s actually playing. It’s going to be an ordeal, it’s going to cost money, but nobody’s going to tell me it cant be done. Please use your own imagination, I like scifi-stuff like web-cam retina scans, voice-recognition controlled play (hey, playing while preparing dinner would double me online time), and finger-print detecting poker-mice.

I also believe dealing with the cheating is something the Poker Sites are very ambivalent about. Publicly admitting (outside the "in-sider" fora) that cheating takes place and that they can't control it would probably prove devastating for the economy. Which automatically takes the marketing value away from efforts to control the cheating until they're 100% successful, short-term at least rendering the development expenses 100% over-head. A major obstacle in a political climate where there’s truly no guarantee online poker will be around (in the US) next year; imagine Congress starts coming after the ISPs with the Federal Wire Wager Act – even if it eventually doesn’t hold up in court chances are the ISPs will act equally cowardly as the banks and credit cards companies did. And nobody wants to invest a substantial part of their revenue in the long term securing of a business that might find itself decimated around the corner.

My conclusion – and I know a lot of posters here will find it highly upsetting – is, that until the poker sites has convinced me that they’re got the best of the cheaters, then I believe it serves my – and online poker’s – interest the best if I not only abstain from entering higher-buy-in tournaments, but also do what I can to discourage other players from doing the same.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[Stoneii]

Here here

[whiskeytown]

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One other thing, folks - run the numbers as to how much of an advantage a random player would have against you playing, say, 3 accounts in a 5,000 field tournament. The effect in my opinion on the field is virtually negligable.


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Well, your opinion is wrong, misleading at the least.

How many grandmas do you think are playing in a 5000 tournament?
Did you already figure the numbers using this variable?

And besides,

Which % of the online tournaments have 5000 entries?

Why cheats just play 5000 entries tournaments, you tell me?

What is the frequency so cheat is ok? once a month, twice a year, once a year?

Very hard to understand your motives, I think you're just embarrassing yourself. Sorry, but I don't get it.

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I think to a random player, it's a neglible edge - but to a professional who just took the one in 20 bad beat to knock him out of the tourney, it's a lifeline - an instant rebuy from which he can continue the game which he will excel at and usually make the money in...

you know for want of a nail, the horse was lost, for want of a horse, the soldier, etc, etc... - a lot of times a tourney comes down to one hand - let's play it, bust out, and move on to another player account we've been slowly playing (probably multiplaying and also accumulating chips on) -

I'll tell ya right now, if I were an unscrupulous guy, and had won a satellite site to the $215 and had multiple accounts, I wouldn't cash out one and just play one - heck no - double your chances with double the entries - but I think that's cheating - so I'm with Sirio on this.

for the average player like me, decent results but mostly dishwater prize money, I doubt it's a big deal. for the guys who are constantly able to get to the final table barring some unforseen bad luck where they got all in with the best hand and lost....it's a lifesaver and a money taker -

RB

[McMelchior]

I can't wait for the double shoot-outs to the WSOP main event starts.

Oh right, come to think of it, I can.

If one "pro" enters a 9 table WSOP ME double shoot-out with two accounts (the Lord forbid more) the chance of both accounts ending up at the same table is 10%.

If three of the bastards get the same excellent idea there's a whopping 27.1% chance one of them will have two accounts at the same table.

But that's not really where the big deal is.

How would you like to find yourself playing 3-way at the final table for a WSOP ME-entry ... against a guy with two accounts? Any takers?

As I see it this type of satellite must be considered history - until the poker-sites find a way to stop the cheaters.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)