Looking more professional, a fashion thread

[fm191124]

buy off the rack, - get a good salesman + good tailor,,,,i have nothing else but this too add to what has been said

your beggining wardrobe will only consist of 2 suits.
People do notice if you wear the same suit every day/every other day. 1 solid black and 1 deep solid navy is alot less noticable, but can still be stylish if tailored well with lots of nice shirts/ties (go buy high quality ties at macys on clearance, there like $35-$60 ties for like $10)

after a couple of paychecks you can diversify your wardrobe

[Manque]

If you are looking for an inexpensive suit try Target. They run about $140.

The most important consideration when it comes to clothes is the fit. The 2nd and 3rd most important is also fit. (4th is quality)

Most men wear their jacket sleeves too long and their shirt sleeves too short.

Land's End allows you to design a shirt for a resonable price.

Shirts with a pocket are less formal than those without.

Shoes matter....a lot. Some good shoemakers are Alden, Allen-Edmonds, for American Shoes. Santoni for Italian, Crockett & Jones and Edward Green for English shoes.

Kenneth Cole and Cole Haan suck.

Closed lace shoes are more formal than open lace. Likewise, leather soles are more formal than rubber. Most people won't know the difference.
Get leather soles anyway.

Find a good tailor to do alterations.

If you shop online, know as many of your measurements as you can.

A good online store for suits and blazers is Sierra Trading Post

A good online store for shoes is The Shoemart

[gusmahler]

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Most men wear their jacket sleeves too long and their shirt sleeves too short.


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I just bought a suit for Jos A Bank. The tailor there actually wanted to make the sleeves longer than the shirt sleeves. I had to specifically ask for the cuff to show. I thought it odd that a tailor had to be told to show cuff.

[W. Deranged]

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For the interviews themselves, you will want a solid black or navy suit.

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Grey is much better than black. Black is for funerals.

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I agree with this 100%. In banking, everyone wears too much black. I've made a point to not own a solid black suit. (I have a black chalk stripe which I like a lot though).

[jackflashdrive]

I sold suits for about a year, mainly because I wanted to buy a lot cheap and I wanted to learn about them. Most fashion mistakes I saw:

1) As others have mentioned, shirtsleeves need to be longer than jacket sleeves to poke out just a bit.

2) Double-breasted suits look much better on tall thin people than short stocky people. Same for 3-button suits (which often look much more fashionable than 2-button).

3) Don't EVER button the bottom button of a suit jacket (this obviously excludes double-breasted). It looks very silly, and enough people are aware of this rule that you'll immediately be perceived as a goober by many. If you have a 3-button suit you can button either just the middle button or top two.

4) Don't wear suspenders and a belt. One or the other. I personally think people under-rate the newsroom classyness of suspenders.

5) Don't wear a shirt that has a button-down collar with a double-breasted suit. Too many buttons.

If you don't own a blazer and slacks, this is probably a good first step.

[cjmewett]

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Most men wear their jacket sleeves too long and their shirt sleeves too short.


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I just bought a suit for Jos A Bank. The tailor there actually wanted to make the sleeves longer than the shirt sleeves. I had to specifically ask for the cuff to show. I thought it odd that a tailor had to be told to show cuff.

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This is a specifically American problem, and on large part it's a matter of the fact that too many people wear barrel cuffs here. I routinely see it said (as it already has been in this thread) that french cuffs are somehow "too flashy" (or something) for interviews or work in conservative offices. This is absurd.

This highlights one of the huge problems of finding a good tailor: often when you just pick one out of the blue, YOU'LL know more about how your clothes should fit and look than they will.

Anyone have any recommendations in DC? I know of a custom shop in Alexandria, but I don't drive and am not keen to make the hump down there.

Other notes off the top of my head for guys who are trying to figure out how to dress:

*Learn how to tie a tie. It goes a long damn way to making you look like you know what you're doing. The President has all the money in the world and the best tailors on hand to make clothes for him, but he looks ridiculous with his 7th-grader tie knot.

*Good shirts will go a long way, even when worn under a suit. A lot of people in America (in politics in particular) wear cheap-looking straight-collar white dress shirts that look as if they were bought at Target. Don't. Nice shirts aren't cheap, but they're worth the extra money when it comes to durability, comfort, and overall quality. I buy almost all my shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt (~$80-$100 ea., though they have a lot of great internet specials) or Thomas Pink (~$125 ea.).

*As others have noted, black is for nighttime. Charcoal and navy are generally recognized as the best colors for business. Leave the greens and browns and eggplants and such to Michael Irvin. Buy a quality suit in a basic color and put your personality into bolder shirts and ties, not silly-patterned suits.

*Buy good shoes. Johnston & Murphy, one pair black, one pair brown, out the door for $250. Get belts to match.

*Button-down collars look stupid with a suit or even just with slacks and a tie (and really in just about every other instance except with jeans). Don't dress up with a button-down.

*A shirt with a pocket is less formal than one without. Obviously the same is true for any sort of logo. Don't wear shirts with pockets or logos with a suit.

*Match socks to pants, not shoes. Obviously if you're wearing a charcoal suit and black shoes, you're fine with black socks. But don't wear brown socks with brown shoes and navy slacks. And if you eventually get comfortable with dressing well, socks are one of the places you can mix it up a bit without going off the deep end -- think like a pocket square on your feet, except that most of the time people won't even see them.

*Read "The Style Guy" in GQ. Yes, seriously. That column answers a lot of beginners' questions about how to dress like a grown-up.

*Matching the color of your belt buckle to your jewelry is a little over the top. If you wear a silver watch and a gold belt-buckle (assuming it's not some big rectangular solid thing, which you probably shouldn't be wearing with a suit anyway), you're probably ok.

*If anyone starts to talk to you about how a man should dress and uses the word "fashionable," stop listening. You don't want fashionable, you want classic. Tie bars aren't just out of fashion, they're stupid. Men don't need extra jewelry. Don't wear a tie pin or one of those bars that connects your collar points behind your knot, either -- if you can pull that off, your collar's too narrow.

*Don't ever wear a colored shirt with contrast (white) cuffs and collar. Just don't. Trust me. While we're on the topic of Pat Riley, don't ever wear a shirt with rounded leading edges on the collar. Or big long points. Or anything else "fashionable" or otherwise freakish.

[gusmahler]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a specifically American problem, and on large part it's a matter of the fact that too many people wear barrel cuffs here. I routinely see it said (as it already has been in this thread) that french cuffs are somehow "too flashy" (or something) for interviews or work in conservative offices. This is absurd.


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People say that because they don't want you to stand out for the wrong reason. Even if most people have no problems with french cuffs, if you interview with someone who does, your chances could be lessened. Likely? No. But why take a chance.

I conducted an interview today and I noticed that:

1) his pants were a little too long.

2) his shirt didn't quite fit him

3) his suit was either ill fitting or cheap.

4) his shoes were a little bit informal.

None of this is going to effect my evaluation of him. I will submit my recommendation based on his credentials. But there are some people who will make a snap judgment based on his dress. That's why you dress conservatively.

Personally, I like french cuffs, own several different cuff links and wear them to work fairly often. But I wouldn't wear it to an interview (as an interviewee), just in case. I wish it weren't the case and that I could go to an interview in french cuff shirts and a pocket square. But (the theory goes) you don't want to be known as "the fancy dresser" when the hiring committee is looking at you. (Just like you don't want to be known as "the slob.")

[guids]

Why wouldnt you want to be known as the fancy dresser?

[gusmahler]

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Why wouldnt you want to be known as the fancy dresser?

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* It could be considered effeminate (which is wrong, but it is how some people think.)

* You could be considered too formal and stuffy.

Again, this is just what I've heard from other people. Personally, when I am the interviewer, I only look at credentials. I may laugh with my co-workers about how someone dressed, but I would never ding someone based on that (unless they dressed hideously inappropriately--e.g., a football jersey to a Wall Street interview).

The theory is that you don't want to draw attention to yourself. I have no idea how true that is. In fact, I think it might be completely wrong. If you show up in a nice suit, french cuff shirt, cufflinks, a pocket square, and polished black cap toe shoes, wouldn't you bring *positive* attention to yourself than a guy with a button down shirt and casual black shoes? And isn't that a good thing?

It's really unfortunate that it seems to be different for women. There's a woman in my office who dresses significantly better than everyone else in the office (her old employer was more formal, plus she has expensive taste in clothes). One female co-worker will be wearing flannel shirt, jeans, and hiking boots, but she'll be wearing a skirt, hose, blouse and a jacket. But she gets away with it and people just comment on how nice she looks. When I do something as simple as wearing a blazer, I get the typical "you going to a funeral" comments. And the one time I did wear a suit and tie, everyone was wondering where I was interviewing that day. (I wasn't interviewing, I was attending an event later that day).

[Manque]

A few more thoughts.

Keep in mind your silhouette. Fitted jacket shoud be paired with fitted trousers, roomy jacket with roomy trousers. May sound obvious but there are plenty of men looking silly wearing a roomy jacket with thin trousers.

For casual yet stylish footwear monkstraps are a good choice. The Chukka boot is another alternative. Consider suede as a material. These shoes are actually more dressy than casual but they are not formal.