Factions within AC

[Borodog]

I don't think it has anything to do with "acceptable boundaries." I think bobman is simply pointing out that "fraud" implies the intent to violate the contract before it is ever entered into. This is clearly "worse" than simply breaking the contract, even if the results are identical.

[hmkpoker]

Oh I see. It has to do with the construction of the contract as well as the actions taken thereafter.

[Poofler]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it has anything to do with "acceptable boundaries." I think bobman is simply pointing out that "fraud" implies the intent to violate the contract before it is ever entered into. This is clearly "worse" than simply breaking the contract, even if the results are identical.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just an intent to break a contract. Intent refers to making a misrepresentation of material fact that the other party would reasonably rely on to their detriment. Like if I were making a loan, and you inform me you have a BMW as collateral, when you have a Ford Pinto. You intend to fullfil your obligation, but you misrepresent yourself to secure the contract.

[Borodog]

Good point.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
You sign a contract to work for your boss for one year. Your wife gets terminal cancer and needs to go to a special hospital in another city to live out her last year of life. You leave your job and follow her..

[/ QUOTE ]

I signed an employment contract without an exit clause for such a situation? I find this hard to believe. If for some reason I did, then not honoring that agreement certainly seems like a lie (fraud) to me. By saying "I'll work for a year" instead of "I'll work for a year unless my wife gets terminally ill," I'm saying that I will continue working if my wife is terminally ill.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
I think bobman is simply pointing out that "fraud" implies the intent to violate the contract before it is ever entered into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with this. See my above post.

[Poofler]

[ QUOTE ]
I signed an employment contract without an exit clause for such a situation? I find this hard to believe. If for some reason I did, then not honoring that agreement certainly seems like a lie (fraud) to me. By saying "I'll work for a year" instead of "I'll work for a year unless my wife gets terminally ill," I'm saying that I will continue working if my wife is terminally ill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in the legal sense. Which is the sense that matters for this discussion. Fraud must must must be intentional misrepresentation of material fact. Agreeing to work for 5 years, and neglecting to inform the contract maker that your wife is terminal and you have to leave in a year... is fraud. Honestly omitting a possible situation where you might need to leave your contract, is not fraud. Such as if your wife gets cancer after you sign the contract. No misrepresentation of fact is made. Both parties entered the agreement intending to fulfill it, and without knowledge of some unreported or miststated fact which the other relied on to their detriment. It is just a breach, there was no "lie".