Caesar's Palace- Player went all in and ran away with $ after I called

[QuadsOverQuads]

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What do you want?

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Something like this :

Dealer calls floor.
Guy starts pocketing disputed chips
Dealer: "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave those chips on the table until I get a floor determination on this matter."
Patron refuses to comply and continues trying to pocket chips.
Dealer: "Security! Table 9!"
Security arrives (hopefully within seconds).
Dealer: "Security, this man is removing chips from the table that are not currently his. Please prevent him from any further removals until ownership of the chips in question can be fully and properly determined."
Security: "Put the chips back on the table, sir."

(etc)


q/q

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you want?

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like this :

Dealer calls floor.
Guy starts pocketing disputed chips
Dealer: "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave those chips on the table until I get a floor determination on this matter."
Patron refuses to comply and continues trying to pocket chips.
Dealer: "Security! Table 9!"
Security arrives (hopefully within seconds).
Dealer: "Security, this man is removing chips from the table that are not currently his. Please prevent him from any further removals until ownership of the chips in question can be fully and properly determined."
Security: "Put the chips back on the table, sir."

(etc

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Add in a good tasering (everybody loves a good tasering) and you got my vote...

[RunDownHouse]

Randy, Jimbo, et al.,

OMG, the Running Man didn't take anything by force! He never signed a contract!

You guys seem like both huge nits and [censored] by saying, "According to legalese, its not robbery! What a crock!" Considering there's apparently an actual Nevada Gaming Commission case and a criminal charge, I think its much more likely that a non-lawyer OP confused the semantic differences between robbery, theft, cheating, and whatever else, than nothing untoward took place. If you quizzed me on whether a given situation was larceny, robbery, or neither, I wouldn't know, and OP's post comes off like he just arrived home and posted it. Totally understandable. Thrust in the same position, I think most people would post one term in place of another on some internet message board. Bitching about the precise legal term used seems really stupid given the circumstances.

In any case, the real status of the case will come forth in the coming months. If its as clear-cut as the OP makes it sound, I'm glad; that will show that Randy and his ilk aren't all-knowing after all, and OP will get his fair due. If some other conclusion arises, then hopefully it will show casino employees everywhere that, no matter their arrogance or assurance, there are situations in which they are uneducated, and should defer to their superiors and/or courts.

[Noo Yawk]

I'm still not understanding why Ceasars' shouldn't have some liability here. If they exchanged chips for cash from the players, ceasars is holding the cash JR stole, and the cops are holding the chips JR took off the table. I understand that cash plays as well, but who has the chips?

My point is that ceasars is actully gaing by being allowed to hold actual cash on hand, while the OP is out money, and the cops hold a few dollars in compressed plastic. This is the difference in player vs. player games (poker) and player vs. house games. It's also a strong case for not allowing cash to play. If JR did not steal the chips, than OP could cash them in, and ceasars' wouldn't have the cash. They shouldn't be allowed to benefit from this situation.

[magoo]

1 That type incident will continue to happen, as long as joints fail to require all bets be pushed forward over a "bets" line on the table. "No limit" games must have such a rule. In games where players play against the house, there are places clearly marked for placing bets.

2 It's not "Caesar's". You are dealing with Harrah's. Harrah's is a difficult company to deal with, when problems arise. Harrah's is the largest gaming company in the world. It has become a monopoly predator operation. It's difficult (for me) to understand how the Feds have allowed a business of that nature to gain a strangle-hold .



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I just left a $2-$5 no limit cash game at Caesar's in Las Vegas. What just happened to me sounds like something out of a movie. took his money, and left. Now to the details/quote]

[bav]

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that will show that Randy and his ilk aren't all-knowing after all, and OP will get his fair due. If some other conclusion arises, then hopefully it will show casino employees everywhere that, no matter their arrogance or assurance, there are situations in which they are uneducated, and should defer to their superiors and/or courts.

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Wow. Randy apparently ran over someone's cat in the recent past.

[RR]

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He acquired knowledge by finding out that OP was going to call. Anyway, even if this isn't the relevant section of the law, I'm very confident its covered somewhere (I have no desire to go wading through Nevada gaming laws). Like I said above, to think otherwise is seriously underestimating the gaming industry. Which is never a good idea when it comes to how they protect their profits.

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I'm not going to go wading through the regs (unless I have a really slow day at work sometime). The regs were written with pit games and machines in mind. I know of two incidents in the past where I personally caught players cheating and gaming declined to prosecute (both cases had to do with tournament chips). I am interested to see if anything comes of this. I hate to see someone get away with something like this, but I also do not like the idea of gaming charging people with a theft crime if they refuse to hand over money when the floor tells them to. Any place else (at least that I can think of) if a person has some money in his possession it takes a court order to take it from them (or at least it is supposed to to be able to keep it). If this guy is found guilty it seems like that is leading to a situation where the casino can order you to ahnd over your money and if you refuse charge you with a crime. That is not a path I want to head down.

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Randy, he is not being prosecuted by a casino. The casino called the NGC and either they used their police powers (if they have any) or they had him arrested by LVPD. If he is going to be prosecuted it will be by the LVDA and they will have all the video evidence along with statements from everyone who witnessed it. If it does come to a trial (and there's about a 1% possibility of that. This will likely be plea bargained) this guy will have the presumption of innocence but the state will be able to put on a case and try to convince the jury that he is guilty of robbery as defined under the statutes or some other crime they may charge him with instead. In all cases his rights will be protected but lets just say I wouldn't want to be in his position in Nevada where they take casino crimes very seriously.

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I sure wouldn't want to be in his position. Of course he will have the presumption of innocence, but this is a huge change from how gaming has handled this sort of thing in the past. In the past a player has always had the right to say "that's BS," pick up his chips and leave when faced with a bad decision (or one he didn't like). In this case the floor got it right and everything is ok, but I would sure like the ability to pick up my chips and leave if I am sitting there watching TV and 3 or 4 guys at the end of the table start yelling that I said I was all-in and the floor comes over and rules that all my chips go in the pot.

[ActionFreak]

I was in the poker room when this happened but I was not close to it. The story as I understand it from a couple of dealers is that villain said he was all in and hero said "i call" and flipped his top set over. Everyone heard villian say that he was all in but none of his chips were pushed into the pot.

My opinions are as follows:

1. The villian is an obvious scum bag and should have to pay the money as well as some jail time. He should also be banned from all Harrah's casinos for life
2. The dealer should have made him push his chips into the pot when he said that he was all in to avoid confusion in a multi-way pot.
3. Verbal is supposed to be binding and I don't want to assign any blame to hero in this situation but he could have verified that the player was all in before calling and especially before flipping over his cards

[grdred944]

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it was funny (no, ironic) that I'd thought about if someone had done this before and I envisioned the player getting gang tackled by security. Insane that this is how it goes down. I'd love to see them stand politely by and not collect a $25 BJ bet let alone a $1K+ one.

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This is what happens when casinos are run by Harrah's (The WalMart of casinos) and not by the guys who would have made it so JR couldn't put chips in his pockets because his arms would be broken. In the long run I guess it is better this way but it would be nice to hear someone reply that they later saw JR on Frank Sinatra drive looking for his teeth.

[Riverman]

Wow. Just saw this thread. I think you did well, but I would have tried to talk to someone higher up the chain.

As others have said, you'll get the $ (if they took it from him). He'll probably plead to something sooner rather than later.