**Important** Gambling Legislation Being Reviewed Today (cross-post)

[Buzz-cp]

I love that name dikshit. also changed my av.

[detruncate]

The thing about these sorts of situations is that it's very difficult to predict how things are going to shake out. It might be a blip, or a temporary setback. It might just be an attempt to add a few more hoops to jump through to help dissuade casual players from doing something that's difficult to prevent via the legal system.

Without meaning to imply any moral equivalence... for many years, decoding US satellite TV in Canada was considered "grey market." There were companies across the country operating above board despite the opinion of the gov't that they were engaged in an illegal activity.

I'm going to skip over the details, but suffice it to say that eventually a court case hit the supreme court that effectively changed the market from grey to black. All of a sudden there were real consequences for people who facilitated the pirating of US based satellite signals.

This isn't to say that the bill that passed in the US said anything new about the legality of online gambling. In my limited understanding it appears to fall back on previous Fed opinion that it contravenes the wire transfer act (or some such) without adding anything new. The parallel is what happens when a nominally illegal but largely unenforceable activity suddenly gets more complicated.

Just like in this situation, the RCMP said that they weren't going to target individuals. However, they quickly busted a few high profile companies who provided equipment and programming. Things moved underground, and there was a lot of hand wringing, but people largely went about their business. It's a few years later, and by all accounts the industry is smaller, but thriving. Now "underground" means "don't make the RCMP look bad." Simply put, they have other priorities, and unless things explode to the point where it becomes news again, or someone gets particularly stupid, there's little motivation to devote much time or money to it. The ardour has cooled.

People are willing to go to surprising lengths to continue an activity they enjoy, especially if they don't agree with the reasons behind the effort to curtail it. We tend to get the impression sometimes that our less skillful opponents are stupid. By and large, they're not (or not any more so than your average person with enough disposable income to poker). They're fully capable of finding ways around obstacles if properly motivated. And we know the sites are going to make it as easy as possible.

Poker has become strongly ingrained in society. There's every indication that people will continue to make the effort to play provided it's not too difficult/risky/time consuming. Hell... some people might get off on the "back room" feel of things. Gamblers are supposed to be badass, no? We likely see fewer casual players... but the sky probably isn't falling (despite my mostly-tongue-in-cheek hysteria).

However, it's possible that things will change in a significant way. For people who rely on poker income, the results might be decidedly negative, especially in the US (the potential legal consequences associated with circumventing a clearer law if nothing else). For us non-yanks, game selection might get a bit tougher, but I'm more annoyed than worried.

Meh. Wait and see time. Hopefully everyone makes it through ok.

[ottsville]

[ QUOTE ]
Bilge, I agree re: site owners wont take too kindly to this and I hope they are coiled back like a snake and will strike when they are good and ready.......



[/ QUOTE ]

I think many of you are overestimating the strength of the poker lobby. Once a law is made, it is much more difficult to repeal it. The time to really fight this was before it was made law(technically, it's not law until signed by the pres, which may or may not have happened already). Poker sites saw this coming for a while. That is why the PPA was formed. IIRC, the PPA was actually started by some of the poker sites(I know that they funded a large portion of it's startup) who foresaw this move by the US government. You can be sure that the PPA and gambling sites have been lobbying congress on this heavily. The fact that this passed shows the strength of the poker lobby. Outside of online poker, I'd bet most poker players have never heard of the PPA(I know that all the American players here are members, right?).

I sat down at a table today with a guy who was an US based affiliate and he hadn't even heard about the new law...so even though some of you say that poker is a big part of contemporary American culture(a debatable point on it's own) what is going on in the poker world isn't, even among players who should be in the know.


For those of you that think that banks will fight this, I think you're dreaming. The banks really don't care about whether you can gamble or not, and restricting transfers to things that could *possibly* be associated with money laundering makes things much easier for them becuase it takes some responsibility off of them with regard to possible suspicious activity.


Hopefully this is just another toothless law that will go unenforced. But, I really doubt that. I'm finishing up some outstanding bonuses on some of my accounts then pulling most of my money out. I'll leave a couple of hundred bucks on a site and wait to see what this all shakes out as...

I haven't even gotten the bill yet for the laptop I just bought to play on.

[nomadtla]

In regards to all this legislation crap, things are about to hit the fan.

[Buzz-cp]

omg the nazi picture is actually on a news story

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
In regards to all this legislation crap, things are about to hit the fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks Nomad but I See that article as just more speculation based on someones opinion. I wont believe the sky has fallen until it has fallen and I wont believe Party has cut off the US until it happens. But what would I know, Im just speculating too so dont listen to me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

the best we can do I think it to try and keep up with the developments and hope that it works out.

[Bilgefisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In regards to all this legislation crap, things are about to hit the fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks Nomad but I See that article as just more speculation based on someones opinion. I wont believe the sky has fallen until it has fallen and I wont believe Party has cut off the US until it happens. But what would I know, Im just speculating too so dont listen to me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

the best we can do I think it to try and keep up with the developments and hope that it works out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the first site that is willing to ignore and work around this bill stands to make a killing. Many US players will still play poker online.(although it will be a much smaller number).

I do think the B&M casinos will suffer. The main reason they have live tables is to bring in other players. A floor manager told me once, that they expect to bring in 1 slot machine player for every 10 poker players. Poker tables take up valuable floor space. If the reward for bringing in porker players diminishes, you may see a fewer number of cardrooms in the future. Obviously this is pure speculation.

[Bilgefisher]

I thought I would repost this FYP.
[ QUOTE ]
Hi xxxx,

We have absolutely no plans whatsoever of dropping any players. In short, it will be business as usual. WSEX.com and all its sister companies are legal and licensed businesses regulated by the Gaming Commission of Antigua and Barbuda. We are wholly located in Antigua and do no business or run any part of our operation on US soil.

The World Trade Organization (WTO) has recognized the right of Antiguan companies to be in this business and has instructed the United States to stop trying to block US residents from playing at Antiguan operations.

Nothing in the bill criminalizes placing a bet or sending money to or receiving money from an offshore gambling business.

We strongly suggest that our players/bettors get set up with alternative payment systems (such as Neteller and First Pay).

Thanks for your enquiry xxxx. WSEX is here to stay.

Best regards,
Byron
WPX

[/ QUOTE ]

This is found in the legislation forum. Also a new FAQ Regarding IG Bill has been stickied in the legislation forum.

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In regards to all this legislation crap, things are about to hit the fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks Nomad but I See that article as just more speculation based on someones opinion. I wont believe the sky has fallen until it has fallen and I wont believe Party has cut off the US until it happens. But what would I know, Im just speculating too so dont listen to me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

the best we can do I think it to try and keep up with the developments and hope that it works out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know and I agree, I'm not flipping out yet. I am not attempting to start pandemonium either. Just in the spirit of keeping people informed I thought it should be linked. Though perhaps the "is about to hit the fan" part should be reworded [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] my appologies

[MrWookie]

[ QUOTE ]
omg the nazi picture is actually on a news story

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think the guy who made that should defend his copyright. Wasn't it made by a guy on 2+2?