I am tapped

[stormy455]

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People's money is their own and they should be free to do with as they wish. If they want to risk it in a high-stakes poker game, that's their prerogative. But trying to create some "poker utopia" where no one loses or even where no one loses more than they can comfortably afford is just downright silly.

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Well put

We don't tell people that they can't drop $30k on designer clothes, luxurious travel, or internet stocks; nor should we tell them that they can't drop it gambling.

Is losing that kind of money [censored] stupid? Yes

But freedom means freedom to do the [censored] stupid.

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Yes, I totally agree with this in a world where people take responsibility for their own actions. Unfortunately, there are many folks who don't. They fall into two categories:

THE VICTIM: "How can you let this happen to me. I'm broke and can't take care of myself. Since you didn't ban gambling, you need to give me food stamps, welfare, unemployment (I got fired for stealing). It's all your fault, I couldn't control myself."

THE ENABLER: "Oh these poor people. They have kids to feed. I really feel sorry for them so we need to give them food stamps, welfare, unemployment (they were stealing 'cause they had no choice). It wasn't their fault, so let's setup a government assistance program for them and then shut down the evil gambling companies."

So, until people take responsibility for themselves and we quit enabling those that don't, you and I are on the hook for their poor decisions. Also, anyone playing at stakes large enough to support themselves is preying on these people. Do the preditors have any ethical/moral responsibility to their prey? I wish the issue were totally about freedom, but there is a huge gray area here.

[HOWMANY]

I'm still waiting for the second edition of this from HIV. It should be awesome.

[Exsubmariner]

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Turning Stone was a success at first. I met a lot of cool kids who were huge ballers online, like empire, zappy, ozzy. I chilled with them and felt like I was THERE, I was one of the top young players in the world, and it would be no time before I went pro. I was up $7K in the limit games and felt like I was unstoppable.



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This is where you went wrong. You are not playing poker to be good at the game. You are playing to be "one of the top young players in the world." You have some self esteem issues you need to get straight. Whatever it is, poker is not the path to build your self esteem. Trust me, every time you feel like you "need" a heater, you will be disappointed. The cards owe you nothing, and they will never fail to give it to you.

You need to figure out why you feel compelled to take such extraordinary risks and are unable to stop yourself.

[ShakeZula06]

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As a libertarian, I don't have any philosophical problem with it. People's money is their own and they should be free to do with as they wish. If they want to risk it in a high-stakes poker game, that's their prerogative.

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I am very libertarian, to the point of supporting anarchy. Check out my many posts in Politics if you don't believe me. Unfortunately we have a government that is currently trying to ban online poker, one of those reasons being the idea that you can go into debt from clicking a mouse. HIV is a shining example of that. If he went on the news and did an interview what do you think that would do to the image of online poker? Do you think that would strengthen the chances for online poker to be banned or lessen it?

This is a poker message board that offers advice on how to become good at poker. I told him to improve his BR management. I'm not out of line at all. Doing so isn't trying to create some "poker Utopia".

The kid gambled with money he couldn't afford to lose, and that's stupid. I told him so. If he wants to keep doing it, that's fine but don't post about it, this type of stuff adds fuel to the "ban online poker" people.

[ShakeZula06]

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Well put

We don't tell people that they can't drop $30k on designer clothes, luxurious travel, or internet stocks; nor should we tell them that they can't drop it gambling.

Is losing that kind of money [censored] stupid? Yes

But freedom means freedom to do the [censored] stupid.


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I agree, but those with power don't

[iggymcfly]

I apologize if I came off as condescending there. I was just trying to make the point that if you win at reasonably high stakes, it's a fact that most of the money you makes comes from people who lose more than they can comfortably afford, and if those people started playing responsibly, the poker games would dry up to the point that it would be pretty much impossible to make a living off it.

If HIV were giving an interview with a news station talking about how poker is evil and ruined his life, then I could see criticizing him for it, but I really doubt that Congressmen are going to be quoting 2+2 posts when they debate in Congress. HIV's story is a pretty common one.

I wasn't saying you shouldn't give him advice either. I was just saying that criticizing irresponsible gamblers for "doing poker players an injustice" is pretty silly since without them, it would be almost impossible to make a living playing poker.

[DeliciousBass]

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HIV's story is a pretty common one.

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I just can't shake the feeling that this statement is way off...

[Mr. Wishbone]

Come on! We need updates, HIV!

[Wardfish]

In order to win the amounts you were winning, you must have been doing some things well eg. being aggressive. Obviously you failed to demonstrate one of the fundamental skills of being a LONG-TERM WINNER ie. bankroll management.

You have to be honest with yourself. Try to objectively assess why you won / lost. Was it just the cards? I doubt it was.

One of your problems was you saw only the good, before seeing any of the bad. When you are in a big upswing, I find
it is best to be thankful without getting to cocky about it. Control of emotions is necessary in this game. Rather than screaming at a big win and crying at a big loss, try the smile and shrug instead.

I have ridden a similar (although much smaller) roller-coaster to this over the last couple of years, but I came to the realisation that you can treat poker in one of two ways.

1. Like a business, where you manage the risk and take your return (in line with the risk)
2. Like a hobby, where you play for fun and are happy as long as it doesnt cost too much

My financial situation, new wife, expensive wedding to pay for and 2-y-o daughter with plans for another, required that I treat poker like a business to add some extra income to the household.

I explained to my wife my plan, which was to attempt to grow a regular, reasonably steady, relatively low risk income stream. I came up with a SUSTAINABLE PLAN to do this, and have stuck to it for longer than I have stuck to any of my non-sustainable / non-achievable get-rich-quick plans.

She is frustrated that the income is low (currently $220 per week) but I have persuaded her to give me time to prove the plan will work. My conservative projections show that by the end of the year my anticipated weekly income will be $485, so it is moving in the right direction.

The point is: IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY, DONT EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN WITH NO EFFORT OR PLANNING.

[Hopey]

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HIV's story is a pretty common one.

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I just can't shake the feeling that this statement is way off...

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It's a pretty common story when it comes to pathological gamblers. And while many poker players do not consider poker to be gambling (for various reasons), for someone like HIV it most certainly *is* gambling.