My turn for a weightlifting/fitness thread

[Blarg]

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you're missing my point entirely.

i'm not saying that squatting isn't helpful to a vertical leap.


i'm saying that heavy squatting isn't.


allow me to clarify-

heavy squatting = failure achieved in under 5 repetitions. so on your fifth rep, you must have assistance. that's what i call heavy squatting.

in my OP i reccomended high capacity strength training. squatting for very high repetitions is something that not many people do and are fairly unfamiliar with the results, but from my experience and the experience of others it is an excellent foundation from which to build on and it in itself is a superb way to increase strength.

but i stand by my point- a routine to increase vertical leap that centers around the idea that squatting heavy (by all definitions squatting heavy is max weight for low reps) is going to be the chief exercise in accomplishing that goal is incorrect.

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<font color="red">You don't have to go to failure when lifting heavy weights.</font> That's probably better too when one might not have perfect form in a potentially dangerous exercise.

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have you read this thread?

i advocated OP not do heavy squats to begin his program. therefore i agree that lifting heavy w/o perfect form is dangerous.

also, *heavy* is different from one person to the next. if i'm bench pressing 315, that's not heavy for me, but for most people it's likely to be more than they could lift.

(not a thinly veiled brag)

heavy weight is a weight that you can do &lt;5 times
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the LOL about this whole arguement is that not a single one of you has ever done a leg routine like i mentioned above, and therefore are making statements based on assumption. and you seemingly neglect the fact that telling abeginner to squat heavy (which <font color="blue">by all definitions has to include sets of 3-5 reps to failure) which is insane.</font>

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I was just pointing out that going to failure can cause form to deteriorate, and it is possible to lift heavy without going to failure.

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It's not even remotely important to go to failure, and is probably counter-productive for most people.

[EricW]

Thremp,

I have a man crush on you [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

(you too Blarg)

[Reef]

argh, my vert is like 26" but my squat still sucks [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[TxRedMan]

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TxRedMan,


I have some questions.


1) Can you address conjugated vs. linear periodization and its development in the last 20 years vs. your comment that nothing has changed since Arnold wrote his book. Thremp- Quote me where I say 'nothing has changed since Arnold wrote his book' and I will address it. But you won't be able to quote it, b/c I didn't say it. I said that not much was left to be said after he wrote that book.

2) Can you explain the comment you made about how your ankle has almost no ROM and you recommend hack squats, but you can manage to deadlift over 600 lbs. Aside from the fact that this could win state champ medals at various events over the last 10 years in your weight class. To clarify, I reccomend hack squats on a machine. I thought that was implied. With a machine you do not have to have the same amount of stability required to lift a heavy weight, and you can adjust your feet on the platform to reduce movement in the ankle joint. I'll do a youtube video of me hack squatting on a machine if you'd like.

3) Can you explain how you thought Kobe was doing a "commercial" movement, when you claim to know the guys who made bands and chains popular? Again, what's with the gross exaggerations? I said I know plenty of guys who have trained at West Side. I met them at powerlifting functions and a couple who moved To Texas. I never said anything remotely close to "I know the guys who made bands and chains popular". LOL @ this.

4) Can you [censored] answer any of my comments without some sort of retarded saying or comment about how you are the master or how [censored] hooge you are?

[/ QUOTE ] I'm HUGE. I'M A [censored] BAD ASS MOFO DAWG WUT WUT WUT YEAH THATS RIGHT I'M A STRAIGHT OG HOMEY I CAN BENCH PRESS WOOT WOOT BOW DOWN IN AWE OF MY MIGHTY BICEPS AND PASS THE DECA YA HEARD?

[SomethingClever]

All,

I'll be hitting the gym this afternoon. Maybe a little pickup ball, then the weight room. I plan on trying machine squats at various weights, and maybe a little freeweight if I can find a spotter.

I've basically never lifted weights with my legs before, so I'm going to be extremely cautious as far as reps and weight go.

Hoping to have a weekly plan hammered out by the end of the weekend, based on some of the stuff in this thread and how it goes at the gym today.

[Thremp]

TxRedMan,

I'm surprised you attempted even even give me a response.

1) You are still evading the core issue as conjugated/linear periodization is the major advance in the last 20 years. Much of what Arnie said has been refined upon.

2) I know you meant a machine. How do you reconcile your injury, your 600 dead, and your advice for someone with a injury that isn't as severe.

3) If you know what West Side is, since its a generic name for their methodology, why didn't you just say it? Why are you trying to obfuscate the question with LOLZ and ZOMGs instead of saying: "Yes, Kobe was using a badass training method that powerlifters use in his video. Thank God his training is worth his weight in [censored]."

[theblackkeys]

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I'm HUGE. I'M A [censored] BAD ASS MOFO DAWG WUT WUT WUT YEAH THATS RIGHT I'M A STRAIGHT OG HOMEY I CAN BENCH PRESS WOOT WOOT BOW DOWN IN AWE OF MY MIGHTY BICEPS AND PASS THE DECA YA HEARD?

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NO NEED TO DOUBLE POST! WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME&gt;

[SomethingClever]

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All,

I'll be hitting the gym this afternoon. Maybe a little pickup ball, then the weight room. I plan on trying machine squats at various weights, and maybe a little freeweight if I can find a spotter.

I've basically never lifted weights with my legs before, so I'm going to be extremely cautious as far as reps and weight go.

Hoping to have a weekly plan hammered out by the end of the weekend, based on some of the stuff in this thread and how it goes at the gym today.

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Trip report:

Played 2 games of pickup ball. Felt pretty good. Shot decently. After the games I loaded up the squat machine (the gym apparently doesn't have free weight squat equipment... it's a small facility at my office).

I put one plate on each side (135 lbs?) and did 3 sets of 10. The weight felt heavier than I expected at the bottom of the flex, but I could have shoved it upward with great force if I wanted. I tried to make the squats explosive in a controlled manner.

Unfortunately that's all I had time for today.

[TxRedMan]

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TxRedMan,

I'm surprised you attempted even even give me a response.

1) You are still evading the core issue as conjugated/linear periodization is the major advance in the last 20 years. Much of what Arnie said has been refined upon.

2) I know you meant a machine. How do you reconcile your injury, your 600 dead, and your advice for someone with a injury that isn't as severe.

3) If you know what West Side is, since its a generic name for their methodology, why didn't you just say it? Why are you trying to obfuscate the question with LOLZ and ZOMGs instead of saying: "Yes, Kobe was using a badass training method that powerlifters use in his video. Thank God his training is worth his weight in [censored]."

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Bro,

Conjugate: a. to inflect (a verb).
b. to recite or display all or some subsets of the inflected forms of (a verb), in a fixed order.

I'm not sure how you want me to something something the conjugated/linear periodization. WTF are you trying to say?

Per my ankle- Let's see...eight percocet's a day...a [censored] ton of rehab...and an extensive experimentation process into what it can and cannot do. I'll have you know that the injury in my ankle was very similar to that of Grant Hill's. But, perseverance and understanding of my body coupled with pain medication and training got me back to good form, strength, and shape. The advice I gave was based on my own personal experience. I was trying to offer a shortcut to the OP who had ankle problems. I don't have jack for ROM in my left ankle, and it hurts something wicked a lot of the time, but lifting weights like I do has been approved and advocated my my Ortho and has helped ease the pain in the ankle by increasing the strength in the surrounding muscles. I have a wickedly strong 'shin' muscle.


Also, I personally find bands and chains to be seriously overrated. Now, that is my personal opinion. I trained with them for a short amount of time (8 weeks) and didn't like them at all. I have seen them work for others, but still, I have seen others not progress with them.



The end all be all of any physical fitness/nutrition/strength training thread always has been and will be that there are basic principals that work for a majority of people but no one reacts the same to every form of training, thus the most important and valuable tool a person can have is an acute awareness of how their body reacts to certain diets, training regimens, and strength training. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. Some people do not respond to heavy weight, others do. To give any blanket statement as fact in strength training is incorrect. Not to mention that the majority of people who give this kind of advice are self proclaimed gurus who seemingly have this wonderful knowledge base but somehow don't have either the physique or the strength to back it up, leaving their claims totally unfounded and their heir of intelligence in this field a complete farce.

[SomethingClever]

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I was trying to offer a shortcut to the OP who had ankle problems.

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I don't have problems any more; I just sprained the [censored] out of it which put me out of action for a few months, leading to a decline in my vertical.

The ankle is fine these days; I'm just out of shape.