How to play 2/4 Limit in a Casino?

[elliot]

stop playing bad poker.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, JJShabado, but disagree. You may be able to practice picking up some physical tells, and getting accurate ideas on who raises what preflop, but as for getting past the flop, I don't really see many accurante hand range reading opportunities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you're missing a lot. There is almost always 1 or 2 other solid players that you can put on a range of hands preflop when they call, a narrower range of hands when they raise preflop, and some range of hands after the flop. There are also old ladies or loose passive players who you can put on hands when they play back at you or show aggression. You're not going to get as narrow of reads as in other games, but you can definitely narrow people down, and get good experience doing it.

[ QUOTE ]

Are you going to go into the tank to assess your TPGK equity versus a 60 year old woman who can't read the board and calls every bet b/c it's "only another FOUR dollars!" ??

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. But this is an irrelevant point.

[ QUOTE ]

What range of hands do you put a 22 year old Asian kid on in a 5 way pot with the board reading Js-Ts-4c-Ad-8s, half of the deck?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also a stupid comment.

[ QUOTE ]

As for bluffing opportunities, cmon. You want to fire off bluffs in a 2-4 Limit game where the vast majority of showdowns end up 3 or 4 way? I suppose in a 10 hour session you might be able to find 5 spots in which you put the other player on a missed draw and fire the river with air, but really, this is not the game to work on getting people off the best hand or identifying missed draws/overs.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree its not. But there are still opportunities and finding them is good experience. You have to know your players well and put together a good story with your hand. A lot of the non-retarded players are very straight forward, if you've played tight-aggressive for a couple of hours you should start finding bluffing opportunities against these straight forward players.

[ QUOTE ]

You can experiement as you said with making moves versus good players, but you will be looked up constantly and you won't derive any information as to whether or not your move was a good one, b/c most of the calls you get will make little sense.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you bluff a calling station is was a bad move. You make these moves against the non-calling station players.

[ QUOTE ]

I disagree that the majority of flops won't be 6 way.


[/ QUOTE ]

Great. I never said "majority". I just said that there are plenty of smaller pots. Even at 20-30% thats 5-10 hands an hour.

[TomTom]

I spent a day in AC a few weeks ago, managed to slip away from my wife for 2-3 hours to play 2-4 at Harrahs. I took exactly 4 hands to showdown.

I played those 4 hands in the first 20 minutes, and then NOTHING for the rest of the time. One guy at the other end was even making comments as to how little I played, but I was card dead, limped in a few times but folded right back out after missing the flop. Saw lots of horrendous play.

Best play I saw was when the guy my right started asking me for opening hand advice.

Why shouldn’t he ask me, I had about 4 times the stack of anyone else there (200+ to their 50-).

SSHE Rules !!!

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread wins for most bad advice not sarcastically delivered in the history of 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. It's astonishing.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread wins for most bad advice not sarcastically delivered in the history of 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. It's astonishing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you don't like my shirt?

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread wins for most bad advice not sarcastically delivered in the history of 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. It's astonishing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you don't like my shirt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I meant to point out that your shirt is sweet. Where did you get it? It kinda reminds me of this Joe Namath brand shirt I have that was made in the 70's.

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, JJShabado, but disagree. You may be able to practice picking up some physical tells, and getting accurate ideas on who raises what preflop, but as for getting past the flop, I don't really see many accurante hand range reading opportunities.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of things about this.

First of all, if every other player is a donkey, you are right. Tells and reads aren't that important, as I'm going to win over the long run any way I look at it. However, by being able to pick up a few nuances here or there, I can make/save a lot of extra money.

Is this opponent someone who likes to slowplay? Is he going to call (not raise) with the nuts? Will he value bet the river for me if I check it to him when I'm afraid I might not have the best hand? How often will he raise the river if I value bet with a marginal holding?

These apsects of these games are huge, and I'll let you in on a little secret. If there are 2-3 other good players at the table, I cannot beat the game without putting those guys on their hands every once in awhile.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to go into the tank to assess your TPGK equity versus a 60 year old woman who can't read the board and calls every bet b/c it's "only another FOUR dollars!"

[/ QUOTE ]

If she's calling me down all night long with crap, I'm going to bet her down all night long when I think I have her beat. Yes, she'll get lucky every once in a while and accidentally river a straight on me, but the times she misses or calls with junk are my profit.

[ QUOTE ]
What range of hands do you put a 22 year old Asian kid on in a 5 way pot with the board reading Js-Ts-4c-Ad-8s, half of the deck?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, my favorite type of player. I get a lot of hell for calling down the maniac heads up with A high, but I win a lot of pots doing it. If he's pumping a five way pot, my range becomes much, much smaller.

[ QUOTE ]
As for bluffing opportunities, cmon. You want to fire off bluffs in a 2-4 Limit game where the vast majority of showdowns end up 3 or 4 way? I suppose in a 10 hour session you might be able to find 5 spots in which you put the other player on a missed draw and fire the river with air, but really, this is not the game to work on getting people off the best hand or identifying missed draws/overs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't bluff the river very often in LHE. When I "bluff", it's almost always on the flop or the turn. And, you're right. I might get one opportunity every two hours to take down a pot in this manner. The point is, those opportunities are there...and they're worth about 1 BB per hour.

However, an even more important point is to not miss bets. People think I bluff a lot at these small limit tables, but the fact simply is that I don't like to miss bets when I have the biggest share of pot equity.


[ QUOTE ]
You can experiement as you said with making moves versus good players, but you will be looked up constantly and you won't derive any information as to whether or not your move was a good one, b/c most of the calls you get will make little sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's precisely your advantage.


[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that the majority of flops won't be 6 way. Maybe 5 is a better number but honestly you will have very few pots that are at a manageable level with 3 or less players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno...to me, manageble means more players. The way I look at it, the more players that see the flop, the more fun the game is. However, even when I play in games where 10 regularly see the flop, there are still always going to be those 2-3 hands an hour that are heads up going into the flop for whatever reason.

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean how can you play 2/4 Limit when you raise and its 6-7 players to the flop? Even Aces are [censored] when it come to that odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to add my voice to the group recommending you read a book on beating low-limit hold'em. Aces are awesome in all games, and not realizing this is a pretty big problem.

Maybe try Lee Jones' book first, instead of Miller's SSHE, since you seem to have misconceptions about the most basic ideas of making money at limit poker.

I am not being condescending or mocking you, but it's important that you realize you don't really know the fundamentals yet. Don't worry; most people don't. Soon you will though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. Stop going on tilt, but you know that already.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread wins for most bad advice not sarcastically delivered in the history of 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. It's astonishing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you don't like my shirt?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I meant to point out that your shirt is sweet. Where did you get it? It kinda reminds me of this Joe Namath brand shirt I have that was made in the 70's.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a $6 thrift store find... and I'm pretty sure it was also made in the 70's. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]
Aces are awesome in all games, and not realizing this is a pretty big problem.

[/ QUOTE ]