mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters

[DblBarrelJ]

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No way. I adamantly refuse to believe that without guns anyone would ever die, ever. It is a proven fact that cancer, AIDS and radical Islam would all disappear should stricter gun controls be enacted.

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Yea, and it's a good thing that radical Islam would disappear, because the NSA would have to give up the name, as the NRA would quickly become the "National Swordsman's Association"

BTW, I'm very interested in hearing MidGe's opinion on me, as a Law Enforcement Officer, possessing and maintaining a firearm.

[DblBarrelJ]

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The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders.

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if you compare violent crime in britain to violent crime in US you will be surprised.

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That's right. Proof positive that guns reduce violent crime.

[xorbie]

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The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders.

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if you compare violent crime in britain to violent crime in US you will be surprised.

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That's right. Proof positive that guns reduce violent crime.

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Do you not know what proof is, or do you just not care?

[tame_deuces]

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The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders.


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No, it doesn't imply that at all unless you can control for other variables, which is impossible.

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Yes, I jumped the gun on that one and it was a false statement, I concede.

Still, there are interesting numbers to be found - the statistical difference on these values if you graph all the different crimes types up against other first world nations is extreme. It would seem that on almost other crime types the US is comparable to the same first world nations, but not on gun-related crime.

[tame_deuces]

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if you compare violent crime in britain to violent crime in US you will be surprised.

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Actually, I won't be. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DblBarrelJ]

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The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders.

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if you compare violent crime in britain to violent crime in US you will be surprised.

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That's right. Proof positive that guns reduce violent crime.

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Do you not know what proof is, or do you just not care?

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I was being sarcastic. What those statistics show to me is a (big) rise in violent crime, and a (slight) drop in death from violent crime, which I really contribute to a learning curve. Give the criminals time to learn to kill better using knives and the death rate will equal the crime rate again.

[pvn]

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On the other hand, we *can* see how easily an armed citizen can put a stop to such mass attacks:

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Here's another one:

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On January 16, 2002, ASL Dean Anthony Sutin, Professor Thomas Blackwell, and 1L student Angela Dales were shot and killed by disgruntled student Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria. When Odighizuwa exited the building, he was subdued by two students armed with personal firearms.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...ampus_shooting

Curiously almost every mention of this case in "the media" (even fox!) neglected the fact that the students were themselves armed.

[xorbie]

pvn,

As usual, it should be noted that my opinion comes off as overstated because I'm forced to argue psuedo devil's advocate positions here. I don't think gun control is good a priori. I think liberals in this country make far too big an issue of gun control and go too far in their crusade against guns. It lets them sleep better at night.

[pvn]

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Sounds like an unbiased opinion to me!


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Not more biased than any quotes from NRA and similar organizations!

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So your counter to bias is more bias?

Also, LOL at your "source". Listen to this whopper:

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Claim 2. Armed robberies are up by a "whopping" 44% since the new laws. In fact the rate of armed robbery increase dropped 12% in 1998.

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These two statements are not mutually exclusive, DUCY? Plus, data-cherry-picking FTW.













NOW REMEMBER, your statement that I asked for a cite on was this:

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Were all crimes with, or without, guns, eliminated? NO, in either cases, but they were reduced!

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Please provide a source that backs this statement. The one you've provided does not, since it acknowleges that crime increased after the new austrailian gun laws.

Continuing on...

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Lets put it this way. You favor unlimited gun ownership and you are in a room with a totally deranged person (they do exists). You would say that in the name of freedom you would like, or not object to, him to have a gun!?

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Why do I have to be compelled to be in a room with other people? I probably wouldn't want him to have a baseball bat, or knitting needles, or a fork, either.

Yet another case of jumping to edge-case scenarios (locked in an enclosed space with a "total nutcase") to justify impositions in the general case. If everyone were derranged and everyone were locked in rooms with other people, you might be on to something! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] <-- I'm going to start taking a page from the RedBean/Midge Secret Trolling Handbook and start using more smart-ass statements, of course dding a "!" and a "" to the end.

And since these people DO exist, I am certainly *entitled* to defend myself from them. Since these people DO manage to get guns (your precious gun control doesn't magically make them impossible to obtain) I certainly see a need for myself to have access to defensive measures.


Now, putting ALL of that aside, can you please explain why I need *your* permission in the first place?

[RedBean]

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Most officers, myself included, prefer an armed public. Legally armed citizens are no threat, and the police can't be everywhere at once.

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Agreed, especially considering that about one-third of justifiable homicides in the US are done by private citizens, either in self-defense, or against felons during the commission of crimes.