hand w/ raillery, bet turn?

[kleos]

grunch = yes

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Think about what I think that car has and what he is going to do with that hand range if:

a) I 3-bet flop
b) I play the flop as is
c) I bet turn
d) I check/raise turn
e) I call down

OR

if his hand range after flop action sufficiently warrants:

f) fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you put me on AJ+ 99+ with the pf action.

If you put me on [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s then you should 3bet the flop with an over pair. If you put me on JJ- or AK then you should probably call and let me bet the turn. If you put me on AQ, not sure that if you should 3bet the flop, or play it like you did. I think 3betting the flop may have been best.

When you checked the turn, I thought you put me on AQ exactly, maybe I was over thinking it, but I just thought it smelled like a check/raise. I think I agree with others that a bet was probably best, but I don't think a free card hurts me here, I think he is 3betting the flop with [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s so I didn't put him on a flush draw. I guess I get value out of AK and JJ. I think I should have folded to the turn check/raise though.

Would you make that turn check/raise with AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? Wouldn't you have 3bet the flop with that? I put you on exactly AA or KK. I even typed in the chat KK, but called any way. Maybe I was over thinking it, but I felt like I played it wrong.

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]
Think about what I think that car has and what he is going to do with that hand range if:

a) I 3-bet flop
b) I play the flop as is
c) I bet turn
d) I check/raise turn
e) I call down

OR

if his hand range after flop action sufficiently warrants:

f) fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this question would be easier to answer if we knew what your hand was.

But my guess is that you put Car on top pair or better, but that you thought that your hand was better.

Consequently you didnt want Car to fold to a flop 3-bet, so you waited until the turn to raise, and hoped that Car would call down with few outs to improve to a better hand.

So my guess is that you had AA. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[xGoreDudex]

I'd bet the turn

[xGoreDudex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Looks like a pretty obvious bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats our line if he check-raises the turn?, I agree on betting turn, just would be lost if he check-raises us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

if check/raised, would you call down? fold? raise?

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

if check/raised, would you call down? fold? raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

My initial response is, it's a fold.

I can see now this is like WA/WB. If his hand range pre-flop is TT+ and AK, then

AA, 3, behind, 2 outs
KK, 6, behind, 5 outs
QQ, 1, behind, 0 outs
JJ, 3, behind, 0 outs
TT, 6 ahead, he has 2 outs
AK, 12, ahead, he has 3 outs

ahead of 18, behind 13. he's not b/c'ing this flop with TT, and he doesn't do this with AK a lot? He is either c/f'ing this turn (no value in betting) or c/r'ing (we lose 2 bets calling down a lot and winning rarely, or lose one bet and the pot, folding). I think I change my mind. The only thing that might shift this is if he caps with AJs and AQo, or KQs? I don't recall Shadow being as lagardly as me in this game.

Also now I think on the flop I just call and re-eval on the turn depending on the board, and whether he bets or checks.

[Kwaz]

I don't raise the flop.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
My initial response is, it's a fold.

I can see now this is like WA/WB. If his hand range pre-flop is TT+ and AK, then

AA, 3, behind, 2 outs
KK, 6, behind, 5 outs
QQ, 1, behind, 0 outs
JJ, 3, behind, 0 outs
TT, 6 ahead, he has 2 outs
AK, 12, ahead, he has 3 outs

ahead of 18, behind 13. he's not b/c'ing this flop with TT, and he doesn't do this with AK a lot? He is either c/f'ing this turn (no value in betting) or c/r'ing (we lose 2 bets calling down a lot and winning rarely, or lose one bet and the pot, folding). I think I change my mind. The only thing that might shift this is if he caps with AJs and AQo, or KQs? I don't recall Shadow being as lagardly as me in this game.

Also now I think on the flop I just call and re-eval on the turn depending on the board, and whether he bets or checks.


[/ QUOTE ]

this was my exact thinking on the hand. You basically said everything I was trying to say, only more clearly. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I didn't think AK b/c I don't see him playing it that way, AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] maybe, but I think he 3bets the flop with it, and he is not check/raising the turn with it.

The only part I am not sure about is this:

[ QUOTE ]
Also now I think on the flop I just call and re-eval on the turn depending on the board, and whether he bets or checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is your reasoning, and what hands do you think he would cap pf and lead this flop with that would make us not want to raise.

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also now I think on the flop I just call and re-eval on the turn depending on the board, and whether he bets or checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

what is your reasoning, and what hands do you think he would cap pf and lead this flop with that would make us not want to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, since we are WA/WB. We're getting punished by him when he's ahead (either 3-bet flop or c/r turn), but earning a bet when he does this with AK. We can also decide if he's serious about his hand on the turn. I kind of wonder how this jives with the FTOP?


-------
Here is general statement about yesterday's game: it was a bit of a whirlwind for me, and I do wonder about how the sweaters took it? I have to admit, I felt so overwhelmed that it was extremely rewarding to get back to my regular game. I was playing at a table last night avg vpip 45, and was back into my comfort zone.