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#1
11-30-2007, 03:17 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have no idea what you are trying to get at here but it sounds pretty vacuous. The important part isnt that he gets upset, the important part is that he reacts in such a way that demonstrates that HE SURE FEELS LIKE THATS HIS WALLET [/ QUOTE ] What I'm saying is: whether he believes he has a "right" to the wallet or whether he actually has a "right" to that wallet is irrelevant; all that matters is either his ability to convince you that the wallet is his or his ability to take control of the wallet via force. [/ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. 
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#2
11-30-2007, 03:23 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back.
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#3
11-30-2007, 03:33 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So it's right that the strong steal from the weak and you're only entitled to that which you can use force to take and defend. That sounds pretty sociopathic to me. At least it's consistent.
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#4
11-30-2007, 03:39 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So it's right that the strong steal from the weak and you're only entitled to that which you can use force to take and defend. That sounds pretty sociopathic to me. At least it's consistent. [/ QUOTE ] It's not right or wrong, it just is what it is. But sometimes, if not often, it is smart to refrain from preying on the weak because of the negative social and/or legal costs of getting caught doing so.
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#5
11-30-2007, 11:44 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So let's say $100 was taken from you. You try to get it back, but they guy who took it is big and has more guns. You figure out that it's probably better long term to live a little longer and give up on the $100. But you still want the $100 back. You see a little old lady sleeping in a wheelchair. A $100 bill is poking out of her pocket. Do you take it? Nobody will see you. She's sawing logs, it would take something along the lines of a jet engine right behind her to wake her up.
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#6
11-30-2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So let's say $100 was taken from you. You try to get it back, but they guy who took it is big and has more guns. You figure out that it's probably better long term to live a little longer and give up on the $100. But you still want the $100 back. You see a little old lady sleeping in a wheelchair. A $100 bill is poking out of her pocket. Do you take it? Nobody will see you. She's sawing logs, it would take something along the lines of a jet engine right behind her to wake her up. [/ QUOTE ] PVN this is another stupid attempt to show that property rights in fact exist. It fails miserably like every other time. The only thing you demonstrate here is that one might rather live in a world where people don't take $100 bills from others with force or deception. This says nothing about whether one believes that one's property is a "natural right". Preference != right. The fact that folks like you and TomD fail to acknowledge this point after we've gone round this circle a zillion times shows that you are either intentionally obtuse or just plain stupid. Neither helps your credibility in philosophical debates.
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#7
11-30-2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So let's say $100 was taken from you. You try to get it back, but they guy who took it is big and has more guns. You figure out that it's probably better long term to live a little longer and give up on the $100. But you still want the $100 back. You see a little old lady sleeping in a wheelchair. A $100 bill is poking out of her pocket. Do you take it? Nobody will see you. She's sawing logs, it would take something along the lines of a jet engine right behind her to wake her up. [/ QUOTE ] PVN this is another stupid attempt to show that property rights in fact exist. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I'm just pointing out that "I try to get it back because I want it back" is ignoring a whole lot of other factors. You're missing $100. You want it back. Here's a way to get $100 with no risk. Why wouldn't you take it if that's all that mattered?
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#8
11-30-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So let's say $100 was taken from you. You try to get it back, but they guy who took it is big and has more guns. You figure out that it's probably better long term to live a little longer and give up on the $100. But you still want the $100 back. You see a little old lady sleeping in a wheelchair. A $100 bill is poking out of her pocket. Do you take it? Nobody will see you. She's sawing logs, it would take something along the lines of a jet engine right behind her to wake her up. [/ QUOTE ] PVN this is another stupid attempt to show that property rights in fact exist. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I'm just pointing out that "I try to get it back because I want it back" is ignoring a whole lot of other factors. You're missing $100. You want it back. Here's a way to get $100 with no risk. Why wouldn't you take it if that's all that mattered? [/ QUOTE ] Because nobody said that's all that matters, dumb [censored]. Edit: You, tom, and the like resemble backwards fundamentalist Christians asserting that without God there is no basis to respect other people. Same rationale as without natural property rights there is no basis for people to respect property. And like those fundamentalists, it is appearing pointless to reason with you folks. And the sad thing is that a "natural" basis for property rights isn't even necessary to your belief system.
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#9
11-30-2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: Argh property rights debate
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We're not talking about him we're talking about you. You say that property is a myth how would you feel if someone stronger or more agile or smarter than you stole your money? You would have no legitimate right to be upset right cos that's just they way things happen. [/ QUOTE ] Okay, we're talking about me. If someone takes my money, I try to get it back. That may entail beating the [censored] out of the other guy, telling him that he's a bad boy, going to the police, or whatever. The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] So let's say $100 was taken from you. You try to get it back, but they guy who took it is big and has more guns. You figure out that it's probably better long term to live a little longer and give up on the $100. But you still want the $100 back. You see a little old lady sleeping in a wheelchair. A $100 bill is poking out of her pocket. Do you take it? Nobody will see you. She's sawing logs, it would take something along the lines of a jet engine right behind her to wake her up. [/ QUOTE ] PVN this is another stupid attempt to show that property rights in fact exist. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. I'm just pointing out that "I try to get it back because I want it back" is ignoring a whole lot of other factors. You're missing $100. You want it back. Here's a way to get $100 with no risk. Why wouldn't you take it if that's all that mattered? [/ QUOTE ] Because nobody said that's all that matters, dumb [censored]. [/ QUOTE ] O RLY? [ QUOTE ] The point is that whether I have a "right" to that money has no bearing on if or how I try to get that money back. I try to get it back because I want it back. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Edit: You, tom, and the like resemble backwards fundamentalist Christians asserting that without God there is no basis to respect other people. Same rationale as without natural property rights there is no basis for people to respect property. And like those fundamentalists, it is appearing pointless to reason with you folks. And the sad thing is that a "natural" basis for property rights isn't even necessary to your belief system. [/ QUOTE ] I haven't asserted any natural property right here. But don't stop the jumping to preconceived conclusions and ad hominem.
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