NL50: Putting people on ranges when they call 3bet PF

[Chomp]

A respected SS poster (can't remember who) recently commented in a SS thread that light/unpredictable 3 and 4 betting/calling/raising has become so prevalent that maybe the best way to play in 3/4b situations (that is, when making them/calling them/raising them) is to play them vanilla white...in other words, at our levels, it may not serve us much better in EV terms to play/assume anything but classic 3/4b lines.

So applying this theory to OP's question here, it would suggest sticking with the presumption that 3b calling ranges from relatively sane opponants are standard until you have a strong read. Sometimes you will be right, sometimes you will be wrong, but it is hard to imagine losing a massive amount of EV if we keep it simple: {AT+, TT+}, or whatever.

Obviously, this theory breaks down against droolers.

Dunno if I have the poster's argument absolutely right, but something along those lines.

[dlorc]

My comments were not so much what we call with, with what I have seen called with ~20k hands last two months at 50nl.

Also I play 50nl with the standard 25nl blinds ( .10/.25 ) so its a little different.

I suggest threebetting a standard range, threebetting light only vs nits and in a range assumption I have a range in mind for:

30+% vpip : calling with ATC - this cannot be understated, I think its a huge mistake to assume range here.

I have someone who's 27vpip over 1khands + who called a threebet from me ( and a large one ) w/ 78o.

Under 25% its going to be a bit more respectable.

You're going to get called light if its a button raise and you threebet AQ from the sb vs anyone.

I think key is really not making too many assumptions because I gaurantee you'll be surprised by anyone except a total nitbox.

[gregorio]

If people are calling my 3bets light knowing they are doing so, I think it's a great play. Like if someone 22/17 ASB35 opens on the button, I have a wide 3bet range from the blinds (compared to what i would 3bet a 30/5 UTG raise). So I think it can be +EV for someone to float my 3bet in position, knowing that I am more likely (due to hand distribution) to be 3betting AJ or KQ than KK+, and usually can't continue after my cbet gets called.

But I think most of the time it's a case of villain thinking, "Oh look, an A (or two pretty cards). Raise. Oh, he 3bet? Well, I have an A (or two pretty cards). Call."

I know as I move up, I need to 3bet steal raises from the blinds more than I do at NL50, but I guess I need to let a lot of hands go that will play like crap OOP when I get called unless I know villain is good enough to steal light and lay down hands to 3bets.

It's like when those fish to my left always call my CO raises from the button, not because they are planning to float, but because they really like to see a flop. Playing the pot OOP still sucks even if villain is horrible, so I can't open from CO too light, even if I'm dying to open my T8s. I guess I need to not feel the need to 3bet my 3bet>fold>call hands from the blinds vs the fish. It just feels so weak/tight. But I guess weak/tight is okay OOP.

[Altreg]

i think key in figuring out hes calling 3b range is what is your image at this table

Cause if u been raising alot ,you can def. put villans on light 3bet-calling range

[gregorio]

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $30.15
UTG: $70.10
MP: $55.35
Hero (CO): $53.35
BTN: $42.85
SB: $66.80

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $2</font>, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $5.50, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($18.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $15</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $64.10 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $32.35 and is All-In

Turn: ($112.95) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($112.95) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $112.95 Pot ($3 Rake)
UTG showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Kings and Nines) and WON $109.95 (+$56.60 NET)
Hero mucked K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and LOST (-$53.35 NET)

[Altreg]

well played,take note and stake hem later