new live 5-5 plo game at bike...big hand

[emil3000]

I definitely agree with iggy here.
I really dislike a turn bet. You just don't figure to be ahead, and you could potentially be in terrible shape.

[Nohage]

When the button calls the flop I would put him a draw like 100%. I would toss AAragrag quickly here in his position. Furthermore, just because he 3bets pf, that shouldn't necessarily mean he has a high pair. With deep stacks it's better to 3bet good drawing hands than high pairs. That said, I would play it very slowly when the turn hits, because that is that card means the most likely draw for the button has hit. I would check and re-evaluate, probably c-f.

EDIT: I have assumed you're playing thinking opponents, if these live games are full of donkeys it makes things different ofc. However, I would still put BTN on a straight a lot so check turn.

[gordo16]

[ QUOTE ]
When the button calls the flop I would put him a draw like 100%. I would toss AAragrag quickly here in his position. Furthermore, just because he 3bets pf, that shouldn't necessarily mean he has a high pair. With deep stacks it's better to 3bet good drawing hands than high pairs. That said, I would play it very slowly when the turn hits, because that is that card means the most likely draw for the button has hit. I would check and re-evaluate, probably c-f.

EDIT: I have assumed you're playing thinking opponents, if these live games are full of donkeys it makes things different ofc. However, I would still put BTN on a straight a lot so check turn.

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QFT, especially prior to the edit

[iggymcfly]

One thing that I didn't catch because of the narrative form of the HH is that this is a 3-bet pot. If so, I think going for a check/raise on the flop is actually perfectly standard; it's not bad at all, and we can't read quite as much strength out of the C/R in front of us. I still think the turn lead's bad though.

Also, on the preflop play, it's not that you have to only play the nuts. I certainly don't do that online. I play a very aggro game and push a lot of slim edges. But when you play a hand like 5332 that regularly makes a lot 2nd nut straights and 3rd-best sets, I really don't think it can be played profitably.

And yes, I understand the difference between live and online play. I do open my game up a little bit live and play more hands, both because the players are worse, and just because it's so darn boring waiting 5 minutes until the next decision, but I still think 5332's going to get you in trouble way too much to be profitable.

[limon]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that I didn't catch because of the narrative form of the HH is that this is a 3-bet pot. If so, I think going for a check/raise on the flop is actually perfectly standard; it's not bad at all, and we can't read quite as much strength out of the C/R in front of us. I still think the turn lead's bad though.

Also, on the preflop play, it's not that you have to only play the nuts. I certainly don't do that online. I play a very aggro game and push a lot of slim edges. But when you play a hand like 5332 that regularly makes a lot 2nd nut straights and 3rd-best sets, I really don't think it can be played profitably.

And yes, I understand the difference between live and online play. I do open my game up a little bit live and play more hands, both because the players are worse, and just because it's so darn boring waiting 5 minutes until the next decision, but I still think 5332's going to get you in trouble way too much to be profitable.

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in the situation described i wasnt really "playing" 2335 i was just playing position in a heads up pot and then got bushwacked by the button. i would like to hear more about whether you (and others) would fold to the rr after the utg calls. it seems to me im in an ok spot to win a decent pot on the flop if i flop good and can get it heads up against the pfr...do you think this situation is too infrequent to continue w/ the hand? this might be getting to player dependent and entering the "it depends" zone.

[RoundTower]

if the button is really bad I call here with any 4 I raised with.

[iggymcfly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing that I didn't catch because of the narrative form of the HH is that this is a 3-bet pot. If so, I think going for a check/raise on the flop is actually perfectly standard; it's not bad at all, and we can't read quite as much strength out of the C/R in front of us. I still think the turn lead's bad though.

Also, on the preflop play, it's not that you have to only play the nuts. I certainly don't do that online. I play a very aggro game and push a lot of slim edges. But when you play a hand like 5332 that regularly makes a lot 2nd nut straights and 3rd-best sets, I really don't think it can be played profitably.

And yes, I understand the difference between live and online play. I do open my game up a little bit live and play more hands, both because the players are worse, and just because it's so darn boring waiting 5 minutes until the next decision, but I still think 5332's going to get you in trouble way too much to be profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

in the situation described i wasnt really "playing" 2335 i was just playing position in a heads up pot and then got bushwacked by the button. i would like to hear more about whether you (and others) would fold to the rr after the utg calls. it seems to me im in an ok spot to win a decent pot on the flop if i flop good and can get it heads up against the pfr...do you think this situation is too infrequent to continue w/ the hand? this might be getting to player dependent and entering the "it depends" zone.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the SB raises and your in the BB, then you can "play position in a HU pot". As is, you're in the CO with both the button and the blinds to act behind you. If you think they're all folding over half the time, this is a lot tighter game than everyone seems to be intimating. The fact is button will call (or reraise) a lot and one of the blinds will usually stick around too. You'll be stuck playing 5332 very deep in a multiway pot.

I will say that I'm not raise/folding anything here though. This deep, the reraise doesn't do much to change the play at all; it just raises the stakes a little.

[Big Dave D]

Like a lot of big bet games, the play on all the streets is pretty debatable. Certainly your way is not a bad way, mostly. The turn is probably the most debatable play. Although you end up with a compulsory call eventually, you have put in just under 3k in a pretty bad spot. Imagine, just hypothetically, if the button had passed and the UTG had check raised you allin instead. You would have ended up calling with one out.

The real problem is preflop. You just don't need to play so tricky/creative against bad players. Deception value based on preflop action is mostly overrated in PLO anyway, and against bad players it is just wasted end of story. Pass prelop.

gl

bdd

[grizy]

I am OKAY with teh call since you'll get to see UTG react to button on the flop first. I wouldn't make the call myself though given the deep stacks.

Bet flop. Probable best hand and you can't really count on button to bet the hand for you with two others in the hand. C/R is okay some of the time but not my default.

I llike folding on the flop after UTG raised although calling to reevaluate turn is okay here. If button folds, I'd bet any turn (amount depends on what turn card is). If button calls, then I am probably done with the hand (button is likely to call with any draw, that's why I prefer folding here). If button is laggy and capable of pushing with backdoor flush + overpair + OPESDs... fold, you can get squeezed here badly a lot.

Turn bet is bad (probably the worst part about the hand in my opinion). You're getting no value here from anything worse and very likely putting yourself in a real bad spot.

Using your own analysis, UTG has at least two pairs or a premium draw. two pairs has 4 outs and won't call you so there is no value. The premium draws on a rainbow board just hit. If button folds to your bet, it is still not certain UTG will fold a higher set but it is almost certain he'd fold pairs so there is questionable fold equity here.

On the other hand, if you get raised... you just stuck in a lot of money as a rather big dog.

I'd call turn raise although it's probably a leak in my game.

[Perestroika]

Limon, when you bet the turn were you betting for value or as a bluff?