Overbetting: When to use it?

effang · #1 11-28-2007, 12:51 AM

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Here's another example from the same session:

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $191.90
Hero (BB): $203.70
UTG: $90.20
UTG+1: $177.70
MP1: $222.40
MP2: $176.10
CO: $70
BTN: $33

Pre-Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
6 folds, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($12) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls $8

Turn: ($28) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB bets $16, Hero raises to $32, SB calls $16

River: ($92) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $157.70 and is All-In, SB folds

Results: $92 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero mucked 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and WON $89 (+$43 NET)

The villain actually folded an Ace here. (During the next hand he typed in the chat box that he had "made a sick fold.)"

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the two hands aren't very similar. I like this one a lot, and it's fine. he rarely ever has a 2 here and if he's good he should be c/c all the time.

in the first example, is there a converter error? on the river there is 53 in the pot, UTG covers, so you are betting 162 into a 53 dollar pot. maybe i'm missing something here...

Smart Money · #2 11-28-2007, 02:21 AM

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in the first example, is there a converter error? on the river there is 53 in the pot, UTG covers, so you are betting 162 into a 53 dollar pot. maybe i'm missing something here...

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You already have 50% equity in the pot (as 95% of the time we are looking at a split here) so if the hand is checked through then we will pick up half of the current pot.

We are trying to steal the other half, ~$25.

Jeff76 · #3 11-28-2007, 02:25 AM

Here's an example of overbetting for value- basically I was pretty sure shortie had a a straight and wasn't folding because he was comitted, and the bigger stack either had a straight or he didn't, but he was likely calling/folding regardless of my bet size. I think I had to raise here because a diamond or board pairing could dampen my action, and any raise is going to be threatening given the re-raise already in front of me, so might as well go for it all. Plus, a push has the bonus of looking slightly absurd.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $13
UTG+1: $37.50
MP1: $139.35
MP2: $21.30
CO: $23.95
Button: $17.45
SB: $46.20
Hero: $50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, UTG+1 raises to $3.5, MP2 raises to $5.25, SB folds, Hero raises all-in $49.5, UTG+1 calls all-in $33.5, MP2 calls all-in $15.55.
Uncalled bets: $12.5 returned to Hero.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($80.6, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $64.4, Sidepot 1: $32.4)

Results:
Final pot: $80.6

xxrod17xx · #4 11-28-2007, 02:35 AM

I have overbet the pot PF with AA or KK OOP (say in the blinds) against a bunch of limpers. This is at uNL of course. I have found that I thin the field down to 1 or 2 callers (you always get at least 1 at uNL) and they are usually calling with hands like a smaller pair that has the least chance of running me down post flop. Or you find someone who is a little deeper than your pf-raise and shoves into you with like 88. I looked for a while to find one of these in my PT I am going to bed and maybe ill find an example later. As far as SPR's go this makes playing these hands OOP so easy...its just a shove on the flop at this point.

This is only for uNL I havent even tried it at 25NL only at 10NL.

Jeff76 · #5 11-28-2007, 02:39 AM

All the time I see people overbet shove with AA PF when they are 3bet. This accomplishes stacking KK and not much else, but I see more and more players do it.

Landlord79 · #6 11-28-2007, 10:57 AM

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All the time I see people overbet shove with AA PF when they are 3bet. This accomplishes stacking KK and not much else, but I see more and more players do it.

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I 3 bet AI w/ AA from the SB last weak against an UTG raiser and got called for 100BBs by AKo. This is 100NL. People just don't expect you to overplay AA like this, as long as you don't do it everytime, it works in good spots.

Landlord79 · #7 11-28-2007, 11:02 AM

Overbets on the flop were covered here.

Basically, overbets on coordinated flops are people protecting made hands.

Gobias Ind. · #8 11-28-2007, 03:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an example of overbetting for value- basically I was pretty sure shortie had a a straight and wasn't folding because he was comitted, and the bigger stack either had a straight or he didn't, but he was likely calling/folding regardless of my bet size. I think I had to raise here because a diamond or board pairing could dampen my action, and any raise is going to be threatening given the re-raise already in front of me, so might as well go for it all. Plus, a push has the bonus of looking slightly absurd.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $13
UTG+1: $37.50
MP1: $139.35
MP2: $21.30
CO: $23.95
Button: $17.45
SB: $46.20
Hero: $50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.75, UTG+1 raises to $3.5, MP2 raises to $5.25, SB folds, Hero raises all-in $49.5, UTG+1 calls all-in $33.5, MP2 calls all-in $15.55.
Uncalled bets: $12.5 returned to Hero.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($80.6, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $64.4, Sidepot 1: $32.4)

Results:
Final pot: $80.6

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No offense, but this hand is 100% standard and doesn't illustrate the OP's point one bit. Clearly one of them had the J, possibly QJ as well, and the other had like J,x w/ fl redraw and assumed HE was freerolling you.

CalledDownLight · #9 11-28-2007, 04:42 AM

I said my hand was a bad example, but I didn't mean that you all had to post ones where you overbet in really stupid spots too. Sorry for leading y'all down that road.

Smart Money · #10 11-28-2007, 05:15 AM

I agree. Yours was a bad example.

But well done for trying.