Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[BluffTHIS!]

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Egypt welched on part of the deal to recognize Israel.

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I agree with a lot of your post but the above assertion is false and Israel and Egypt in fact have full diplomatic relations and exchange of ambassadors, which obviously is recognition. If you mean that Egypt doesn't recognize Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel that is a different issue which doesn't keep them from having diplomatic relations.

Here is a handy wiki map showing Israel's diplomatic relations with other countries.

[theblitz]

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Israel and Egypt in fact have full diplomatic relations and exchange of ambassadors

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This is true up to a point.

The Egyptians do have an ambassador in Israel but he is "recalled for consultation" more often than he is in Israel.

It is also true that Mubarak NEVER visits Israel. I am not 100% sure but I think he has actually never been here.

[theblitz]

I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

All other parties are there for personal reasons:

1. Olmert is hoping to use the "Peace Process" in order to deflect attention from the bribery etc. scandals he is involved in. When an ex-member of the High Court says that they intentionally went easy on Sharron because "his political actions at the time were important to Israel" then I think Olmert has a good chance of this helping.

2. Rice is there to try and make up for all the rubbish she has done in her job. She is generally recognised as the worst Secretary of State ever.

3. Bush is there in order to try and salvage something from his tenure. HE totally screwed up in Iraq (a war I actually supported). This is his last chance to earn his Nobel Peace Prize.

[SNOWBALL]

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I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

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what the [censored] are you talking about? The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years. In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak. These are human beings. They want a life worth living. This means they want their own land and they want freedom. A lot of people don't realize this, but palestinians are among the most liberal arabs in the world.
If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

[theblitz]

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The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years.

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The palestiniands have NEVER recognised Israel's right to exist. Arafat did send a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO does do so but the PLO is NOT the government and never has been.

As part of the Oslo agreement they were required to do so.
They brought it up to the committee of the Fatah and promised to create a special task force in order to investigate the actual doing so. That is as far as it has ever gone.
Even the most staunch left-wingers in Israel admit so.
In fact, each time a peace proposal comes up the big thing that is mentioned is that the Palestinians are now ready to recognise Israel.

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In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

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Nice idea but total rubbish. No other word for it.
Try looking here:
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...risrael-3.html

And, before you say anything, I know that it includes a few cases of some Israelis performing terrorist attack on the Palestinians.

Also, you might want to look here to see what happened to terrorist acts after the Oslo "Peace Accords".

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The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak.

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Funnily enough Israelis are the same. However, at the end of the day it is the leaders you deal with and they are the ones that can't be truated.

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These are human beings.

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I assume you are talking about the ones who fire on school buses and blow themselves up in cafe's.

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If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

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Or, you could stop giving money to Egypt who give it to the Hamas and stop giving money to the Saudis who pass it on to al-Qaeda.

[JayTee]

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If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

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and, you could stop giving money to Egypt who give it to the Hamas and stop giving money to the Saudis who pass it on to al-Qaeda.

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fyp

[Bedreviter]

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I, in fact, feel that the only honest side here are the Palestinians. The only interest they have is to set up a state in order to have a base from which to further attack Israel as they do from Gaza. They do not hide this fact.

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what the [censored] are you talking about? The palestinians have recognized israel's right to exist for almost 20 years. In the 80s, there were hardly any terrorist attacks inside israel. Most guerilla violence was against IDF soldiers inside palestinian land.

The average palestinian isn't some demonic hate filled freak. These are human beings. They want a life worth living. This means they want their own land and they want freedom. A lot of people don't realize this, but palestinians are among the most liberal arabs in the world.
If you want to build democracy in the arab world, you can start by not giving billions of dollars a year to Israel which they use to turn around and smash palestinian independence.

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The level of liberality among most Palestinians does not help much when an organization like Hamas is popular among the same people. Hamas are certainly not just fighting for their own peaceful Palestine state, they are also fighitng against the existance of a jewish nation in the area.

Building democracy in the Arab world is probably not acheived by letting Israel be left defenseless, as it is surruounded by less than friendly neighbors.

[DblBarrelJ]

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Building democracy in the Arab world is probably not acheived by letting Israel be left defenseless, as it is surruounded by less than friendly neighbors.

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I've never understood what the deal is with everyone feeling the need to "help" Israel. Israel has one of the most highly trained fighting forces in the world. I have no doubt that an Israeli Spec Ops squad would be one of the few groups in the world who would be victorious in a fight against elite SEALs, or a Blackwater security team.

Israel doesn't need our help to defend themselves. They may be small, but I have little doubt they could level the middle east if they felt they needed to, without US assistance.

[Bedreviter]

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Building democracy in the Arab world is probably not acheived by letting Israel be left defenseless, as it is surruounded by less than friendly neighbors.

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I've never understood what the deal is with everyone feeling the need to "help" Israel. Israel has one of the most highly trained fighting forces in the world. I have no doubt that an Israeli Spec Ops squad would be one of the few groups in the world who would be victorious in a fight against elite SEALs, or a Blackwater security team.

Israel doesn't need our help to defend themselves. They may be small, but I have little doubt they could level the middle east if they felt they needed to, without US assistance.

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The reason why Israel is so strong militarily is strongly related to the military and economic help it receives from the US.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

My memory is failing me on this subject...
I remember there was some diplomatic related accord that Egypt had welched on. The wiki article on the Camp David accords is not helpful because it only refers to both sides "generally" abiding by the agreement without going into specifics of violations. I'll do my homework when I have more time....