10NL - Flopped set, value extraction OOP

[Webster]

Personally I would not have played this PF because of only one player was for sure going to be in the pot.

As played I would have put in a smaller raise making it look like I have something but am not real happy with it. Your pot size raise might have scared him off ????

After that - you got him and I would do the same. Pot is nice size so wining it right there is not a bad thing, if he calls great.

As in limit I don;t like to wait too long with a set. Last thing you want is to see a ten on the river.

I'd say NH!!

[Ulkis]

Pot sized raise on the turn would be 2x amount to call + pot
ie $6 < $4 or have I understood this wrong?

[Ulkis]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot sized raise on the turn would be 2x amount to call + pot
ie $6 < $4 or have I understood this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or is it: PSR is 2x the amount to call + pot including bets.

2x 1.75 + (2.5 + 1.75) = $7.75

This way Button has to call $6 to win $12.

My head hurts, too many beers.

[akak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pot sized raise on the turn would be 2x amount to call + pot
ie $6 < $4 or have I understood this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or is it: PSR is 2x the amount to call + pot including bets.

2x 1.75 + (2.5 + 1.75) = $7.75

This way Button has to call $6 to win $12.

My head hurts, too many beers.

[/ QUOTE ]

You had it right the first time I think. 2x his bet + original pot.

He only had 3.90 left though so I was pretty much putting him all-in. He ended up folding which left me wondering if I missed some value, but with that T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hitting, I doubt I should have let him get to the river for less than his stack anyway.

[gregorio]

Flop, I think leading is fine, but c/r is also okay since his stack is small enough that you can get it all in by river with a c/r on flop (with bigger stacks, you might need to bet/3bet flop to build pot enough to get it all in). Like alobar, i lead smaller on flop because i think it is more likely you will get chance to 3bet.

I don't see how you can get more value out of this hand, especially since you got the Turn c/r in. YOu got 2 streets of value against what was probably not a very strong hand. If he has overpair or AJ, with his stack size you probably get his stack no matter how you play the flop and turn. If he has a hand worse than AJ, there is probably no way you get more value than you did. Part of getting value from a set is getting villain to also have a big draw or TP or better. If they don't have that, there's not a lot you can do to trick them into giving you their stack.

[Ulkis]

Actually the 2nd way is correct. If villain wants to call he is getting 2-to-1 which is what PSR is all about, apparently.

PSR seems intuitively too high to me.

[akak]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the 2nd way is correct. If villain wants to call he is getting 2-to-1 which is what PSR is all about, apparently.

PSR seems intuitively too high to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

After doing some searching, yah I guess you're right. I agree, it definitely feels too big. I mean look at the turn then:


Turn: ($2.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">Button bets $1.75, Hero raises to $7.75</font>

It's not very intuitive at all. PSR would seem to imply raising the size of the pot. ie, after button bets, the pot is 4.25, so increase his bet by 4.25. raise it the size of the pot.

Still haven't really wrapped my head around this yet. It just feels wrong, but the math works out.

I can't see my self using pot sized raises all that often. Certainly not on the turn. How often do you need to lay your opponent 2:1 on the turn? When he's on an open ended straight flush draw?

[diebitter]

First, this is a clear call preflop. Less than 5% of the effective stacks when you're on the button is a good call for a huge range of hands; defitely all PP, Axs, 54s+, 64s+, and even 87+ and 97+. Hell, even Kxs at a push.

Especially against an aggy opponent.


I like the line.


Also, you're kind of right about the transparency of the turn. Aggressive play on the flop usually means a draw or two pair (though sometimes a set etc), but aggressive on the turn usually telegraphs 'my hand beats TPTK' (and that usually means a set - or a bluff, obv).

But you can only be a certain level of agg on the flop, or people just fold when the pot's cheap.

Whatcha gonna do, eh?