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#1
11-14-2007, 10:59 AM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
There is obviously a fundamental difference between your view and Santorum's view. He's wants to make everybody do what he wants them to do, so he "acts" on the idea that he doesn't think what they are doing is good or right. You want to let everybody do what they want to do, so you "act" on the assumption that the little girls don't want to be kidnapped and raped. [/ QUOTE ] Probably one of the contributing factors to his defeat in 2006. 
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#2
11-14-2007, 12:23 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If I am free to pursue whatever I consider to be my goal, then that is freedom. If someone else decides, I am, by definition, not free. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is very well put. Obviously this means there's no perfect freedom, but that's ok. Some goals are more acceptable than others. Consider: Person A: His goal is to kidnap young girls and rape them Person B: His goal is to have gay sex with a different partner every night I have no problem imposing my morality on Person A and restricting his liberty to pursue his goals. [/ QUOTE ] You've almost arrived at a generalizable principle. All you have to do is look at the other end of his actions. Person A is presumably acting upon someone who does not consent. If we assume these girls have a goal to be free from kidnapping and rape, then person A's action would be objectionable not because of some intrinsic property of the action, but because of the lack of voluntary agreement from the other party in the transaction. Likewise, Person B's actions to achieve his goal may or may not be objectionable - we don't have any information indicating that the partners consent.
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#3
11-14-2007, 10:57 AM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
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Who exactly decides what the spiritual or moral goal is? [/ QUOTE ] You didn't really say anything about morality. I don't think you were referring to morals when you wrote: [ QUOTE ] If I am free to pursue whatever I consider to be my goal, then that is freedom. If someone else decides, I am, by definition, not free. [/ QUOTE ] That's a ridiculous statement regarding morality, DUCY?
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#4
11-14-2007, 10:45 AM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
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I don't think it is a particularly "conservative" defintion. Liberals certainly campaign on notions of serving a higher purpose, and whether that is a societal goal vs a spiritual or moral goal is irrelevant. Santorum is right on. [/ QUOTE ] Meh. Both liberals and conservatives define freedom within the confines of their preferred societal framework. Neither one believes in the most important freedom of all, the freedom to keep every penny you earn.
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#5
11-14-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't think it is a particularly "conservative" defintion. Liberals certainly campaign on notions of serving a higher purpose, and whether that is a societal goal vs a spiritual or moral goal is irrelevant. Santorum is right on. [/ QUOTE ] Meh. Both liberals and conservatives define freedom within the confines of their preferred societal framework. Neither one believes in the most important freedom of all, the freedom to keep every penny you earn. [/ QUOTE ] One of my favoroite quotes (paraphrasing from memory) "the truest freedom is the freedom to earn and to spend a dollar" Booker T Washington.
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#7
11-14-2007, 11:12 AM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water.
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#8
11-14-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
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For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water. [/ QUOTE ] Define equality. natedogg
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#9
11-15-2007, 08:17 AM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water. [/ QUOTE ] Define equality. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] That certainly is the standard answer around here, but the word freedom one can throw around as one wish. But ok - equality as I used it points to an attempt at treating people the same when upholding principles.
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#10
11-15-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water. [/ QUOTE ] Define equality. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] That certainly is the standard answer around here, but the word freedom one can throw around as one wish. [/ QUOTE ] LOL. This entire thread is about definitions of freedom. Jeez.
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