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#1
11-07-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
Are interrogations supposed to be pleasant?
How do you personally know if waterboarding has been effective in foiling terror attacks? As far as I know, John McCain doesn't interrogate captured jihadists. Waterboarding doesn't cause physical harm. Just scares the hell out of you. If a terrorist has bad dreams because of it, I'm fine with that. Though I think it's more likely his dreams would be haunted by the innocent people he has killed. 
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#2
11-07-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
why don't we torture suspected criminals? I mean, they might kill someone.
we can torture to save thousands, but not to save one or a few? if it can possibly save a life, how can we not torture?
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#3
11-07-2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
Waterboarding doesn't cause physical harm. Just scares the hell out of you. [/ QUOTE ] This is not completely true even though proponents like to claim it is. Waterboarding can cause plenty physical harm as well as death. Waterboarding means you intentionally asphyxiate the person. It was used by such role model-worthy folks as the Spanish Inquisition, WWII Gestapo and Japanese troops (one of whom was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor by the U.S. in '47), and the Khmer Rouge. Interestingly enough, the term used by the Nazis, Verschärfte Vernehmung, means enhanced interrogation techniques, the same term used by the Bush Administration for these types of techniques.
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#4
11-08-2007, 05:07 AM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
Are interrogations supposed to be pleasant? How do you personally know if waterboarding has been effective in foiling terror attacks? As far as I know, John McCain doesn't interrogate captured jihadists. Waterboarding doesn't cause physical harm. Just scares the hell out of you. If a terrorist has bad dreams because of it, I'm fine with that. Though I think it's more likely his dreams would be haunted by the innocent people he has killed. [/ QUOTE ] The situation I was attacking was the stupid idea that you can get information out of people through torture to stop a terrorist attack that will happen in a few hours. Its not gonna happen. The best thing to do is to use actual reliable information to try and pinpoint where the bomb could be and to get people out. Torturing people wont do anything at all. [ QUOTE ] How do you personally know if waterboarding has been effective in foiling terror attacks? As far as I know, John McCain doesn't interrogate captured jihadists. [/ QUOTE ] Because as I said people can lie. How many of those leads are you going to chase? Its a lazy way of doing things. The correct way is to actually investigate a situation and find out information that you know is rock solid. Torturing people leads mostly to dead ends. Most of these guys arent thinking of living after being captured they are ok with death. Seems pointless to stoop down to their level and torture them. My thoughts are simple, dont play their games. Let the captured prisoners rot in a cell for the rest of their lives if they are found guilty of crimes and dont stoop down to their level by resorting to torture. This ensures that when they capture some of us they might show some restraint and not torture them and also makes them more likely to talk. If you treat them like any other prisoner and they rot in a prison for a couple of years some if not most will realize that this will be the rest of their lives and they will try to make it as comfortable as possible, which means talking. These guys want attention above all else nothing will piss them off more than being treated like any other prisoner. If you torture people you help feed the myth that Americans are evil and actually help those guys get more recruits and grow. There seems to be no positive aspect of using torture and a lot of negatives. I still dont get why its even an argument.
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#5
11-07-2007, 08:27 PM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] When your sister can't get out of NYC and Mohammed el-dirtbag knows where the dirty bomb is, if you tell me then that its still wrong to torture i'll believe you all. Till you have a personal stake in it you don't have a clue what your real philosophy is. [/ QUOTE ] This type of scenario is presented in political debates and I think it’s the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Here is the problem with this from a logic standpoint. The dudes who set up a bomb probably spent months if not years planning the attack. Their lives revolved around this goal. Are you telling me that someone who is this driven will actually tell the truth and screw up all of his work because he gets a little beaten up? I think not. I can’t imagine torture working at all against people who don’t seem to care about their lives very much. [/ QUOTE ] If you don't retreat to the position that all politicians (or the Administration) are liars, then George Tenet was very clear that extreme interrogation of khalil Sheikh Mohammed saved American lives. Until someone proves that to be untrue, torture can work.
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#6
11-07-2007, 08:38 PM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't retreat to the position that all politicians (or the Administration) are liars, then George Tenet was very clear that extreme interrogation of khalil Sheikh Mohammed saved American lives. Until someone proves that to be untrue, torture can work. [/ QUOTE ] colin powell said he was sure wmd's were in iraq, so by your logic ...
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#8
11-07-2007, 08:38 AM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
Re: What About Mukasy's Position on Waterboarding? His position should be supine on the board, till he accepts it is torture. [/ QUOTE ] Good to see MidGe supports torture, just as long as it's happening to an American. Also, this is dumb. Of course it's torture. It also causes a ridiculous amount of work for American operatives, who must now chase 5000 totally false leads, just to find the 1 true one which came through.
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#9
11-07-2007, 03:22 AM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
For those who think it is ok for us to waterboard people, is it ok for other countries (read: countries run by brown people) to torture Americans if they are in danger? Say American officers were captured by Iran, who are right now probably pretty worried about getting bombed the [censored] into the stone age by us and want to learn more. But I mean, it wouldn't have lasting psychological effects of course. Fair game?
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#10
11-07-2007, 04:10 AM
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Re: What About Mukasy\'s Position on Waterboarding?
[ QUOTE ]
For those who think it is ok for us to waterboard people, is it ok for other countries (read: countries run by brown people) to torture Americans if they are in danger? Say American officers were captured by Iran, who are right now probably pretty worried about getting bombed the [censored] into the stone age by us and want to learn more. But I mean, it wouldn't have lasting psychological effects of course. Fair game? [/ QUOTE ] Does whether we do it or not impact the probability of our enemies doing it to us? (I am being serious)
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