Longshot Theoretical Question: Paul v Hillary

[AlexM]

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Ron Paul represents the complete absence of special interest payoffs, and thus he cannot win.

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"Taxpayers" is a pretty mighty special interest.

[John Kilduff]

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What would happen is this: Ron Paul would get slaughtered because his platform explicitly includes not giving away the store to corporations and other special interests. Hillary will do the usual thing and raise taxes in order to give the money to the rich. She'll get all the support of the rich and of the dupes who think raising taxes makes things "fair".

natedogg

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This logic kind of fails if he's already won the primary since by the same logic it should have been impossible for him to win the primary.

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Fair enough. But it's an exercise in absurdism to imagine Ron Paul as the republican candidate, because of that fact. The same reasons apply to why he won't get the nomination.

All the major candidates are mostly a collection of special interest give-aways. Whichever special interests you'd like to see take money from the poor, just pick the candidate who is in bed with them and you've got your man.

Ron Paul represents the complete absence of special interest payoffs, and thus he cannot win.

natedogg

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A LOT of Americans are sick of politics as usual and the usual bullcrap served up by our politicians. Special interests are one thing but the average American is fed up with all the baloney; see approval ratings too.

The average American is starting to see that we are getting into real trouble with inflation, the dollar, oil prices, the Iraq war, loss of civil liberties, and more. I don't think the average American has much confidence in any of the frontrunners or the administration or even in Congress as a whole (which almost routinely flouts the will of the American people).

All of this to me means that if Ron Paul's message can really reach enough people, and if they have the chance to truly explore and understand it, he has an actual chance to win.

Grassroots America can overcome the lobbies if grassroots America really gets united and activated behind something. Grassroots America got rid of the phony and seditious "not an amnesty" immigration bill, and grassroots America can overcome a great deal more if united. Ron Paul's message (and the honesty of the man himself) just might be capable of uniting much of America.

It's a bit surprising to me that so many people have a default stance of defeatism when it comes to a candidate with genuine integrity and with good basic ideas and whose past record comports with those things. Talking out of both sides of one's mouth isn't necessarily a prerequisite for holding political office, but a lot of people are acting like a real person hasn't a chance.

Maybe you don't realize that much of America may be nearly as fed up, worried and lacking confidence in government as you are. People know something is wrong and that it isn't going to be fixed by the way the current system is working, or by more of the same, or by more of the same candidates which are all basically alike with just a little variation thrown in.

All it takes is a spark people can believe in, and Ron Paul and his message may be that spark. If he can keep raising money like this he won't need special interest money for his campaign.

Thanks for reading.

[manbearpig]

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All of this to me means that if Ron Paul's message can really reach enough people, and if they have the chance to truly explore and understand it, he has an actual chance to win.


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This is what is going to be the downfall. Not enough people really care to do the digging to find out what is really going on. Not enough people are smart enough to see through the rhetoric.

Do you think the average American has the ability to understand the financial crisis we are racing towards? Because I think that is where I first got on the bandwagon. I have never understood how we can spend more money than we bring in every year and be ok. But I dont think the majority of people understand that.

I think this fits in nicely with the preferences thread that was going. People say they care and want a change, but when it gets down to it they are unwilling to take the time to make it happen.

The only chance RP has is if the media begins to force feed him down peoples throats, and we all know that is not going to happen.

[natedogg]

I disagree. I don't think americans are fed up with the way things work. They are simply fed up with the other side's special interests. Witness the majority favor for nationalized health care. People WANT to create bigger and more entrenched special interests: theirs.

When Ron Paul stands up and says he's going to fire all the DEA and Dept of Education employees, and other departments, he's attacking the public employees unions special interest.

When he says he wants to get out of Iraq now, he's facing off against all the employees of Halliburton, Lockheed, etc.

He threatens farmers who live on subsidies, the teachers union which lives on a state-run monopoly, and more.

All of these people are *not* sick of their handouts.

natedogg

[Max Raker]

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What would happen is this: Ron Paul would get slaughtered because his platform explicitly includes not giving away the store to corporations and other special interests. Hillary will do the usual thing and raise taxes in order to give the money to the rich. She'll get all the support of the rich and of the dupes who think raising taxes makes things "fair".

natedogg

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This logic kind of fails if he's already won the primary since by the same logic it should have been impossible for him to win the primary.

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No, for Ron Paul to get the nomination all the other viable republican candidates would have to undergo separate misfortunes like Mr. Burns' softball team from the Simpsons. Romney gets charged for every crime in NY city, Romney gets hypnotized and thinks he is a chicken etc...

[John Kilduff]

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What would happen is this: Ron Paul would get slaughtered because his platform explicitly includes not giving away the store to corporations and other special interests. Hillary will do the usual thing and raise taxes in order to give the money to the rich. She'll get all the support of the rich and of the dupes who think raising taxes makes things "fair".

natedogg

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This logic kind of fails if he's already won the primary since by the same logic it should have been impossible for him to win the primary.

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No, for Ron Paul to get the nomination all the other viable republican candidates would have to undergo separate misfortunes like Mr. Burns' softball team from the Simpsons. Romney gets charged for every crime in NY city, Romney gets hypnotized and thinks he is a chicken etc...

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Or maybe just for many Americans to realize that there actually is an alternative to the failing status quo and to politicians being FOS.

[One Outer]

Outside of Hillary losing the nomination (I think she will lose, but fingers crossed), Ron Paul would be the greatest thing to ever happen to the Democrats. Ever.

Right now the public thinks the Republicans are corrupt and mean. Wait till they think they corrupt, mean and crazy. I can only wish for this scenario.

[bills217]

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Wait till they think they corrupt, mean and crazy.

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You guys gotta admit - being pro-freedom really is kinda "out there." Sometimes I think I've got a screw loose! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[SleeperHE]

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Wait till they think they corrupt, mean and crazy.

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You guys gotta admit - being pro-freedom really is kinda "out there." Sometimes I think I've got a screw loose! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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Obviously the "Founding Fathers" were complete nut jobs...

Good thing we've made a clean break from their principles.
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[bills217]

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Obviously the "Founding Fathers" were complete nut jobs...

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Should have been obvious from the crazy wigs they wore. And no income tax? No Department of Education? Are you kidding me? They should have all been in an asylum.