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#1
10-23-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
Nat, I think it's great that you and AP are doing this. It's at least an attempt to add some transparency to the situation. I haven't chimed in on any of these threads yet, but I have read a lot of them. The work you are doing is commendable and I see no reason why anyone should doubt your integrity, or your right to compensation.
Also, [ QUOTE ] Can you ask them something like "Why did you continually lie to the public and cover things up when you knew there was cheating going on?" and make sure you get it word for word on record from the highest person at AP you can find. [/ QUOTE ] Good luck. 
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#2
10-23-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
Another response re: finding things there. Let's face it -- they aren't going to give me anything that will clearly implicate ridiculous amounts of cheating that they have not admitted to. If people think that I'm going there to do that sort of searching, I'm not. I just don't have the resources to do that in a few day span.
I'm going to report back on my smell test of the management there, the clean up going on, the explanation of the cheating, etc. I will be asking questions and reporting back, but don't expect any groundbreaking dramabombs. In fact, if you think about it, this is a lose/lose for me in a lot of ways. If I SOMEHOW uncover significant dirt or something, then AP's credibility sinks even lower, the poker industry takes another hit in the media and I may even become a target (although the company has told me that they do not do that sort of thing and I believe them -- I'd be more worried about individuals). And if I come back without dramabombs, then BBV says "wtf" and says it was a waste. So it's really just about getting a feel for management, seeing their explanations and trying to help them get back on their feet in any way I can. Also, the offer for Adanthar to take my place is very much on the table. I don't really WANT to do this, but I think it could be a good step for communication between AP and the online communities.
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#3
10-23-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
I don't understand why you're trying to help them get back on their feet. The people who own the company are responsible for the cheating, and you think that cleaning house will solve that problem? How do you wipe out the owners of a buisness and remain viable?
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#4
10-23-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you're trying to help them get back on their feet. The people who own the company are responsible for the cheating, and you think that cleaning house will solve that problem? How do you wipe out the owners of a buisness and remain viable? [/ QUOTE ] Because AP being clean/open/honest/etc going forward is good for poker. If I don't think they're really committed to that I'll say so.
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#5
10-23-2007, 05:36 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't understand why you're trying to help them get back on their feet. The people who own the company are responsible for the cheating, and you think that cleaning house will solve that problem? How do you wipe out the owners of a buisness and remain viable? [/ QUOTE ] Because AP being clean/open/honest/etc going forward is good for poker. If I don't think they're really committed to that I'll say so. [/ QUOTE ] I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed in that attitude. After what they've done, anything less than that company going under is NOT good for poker. Like many people have already shouted, if other sites see what AP did and also see them get away with it, that will be horrible for everybody.
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#6
10-23-2007, 05:39 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't understand why you're trying to help them get back on their feet. The people who own the company are responsible for the cheating, and you think that cleaning house will solve that problem? How do you wipe out the owners of a buisness and remain viable? [/ QUOTE ] Because AP being clean/open/honest/etc going forward is good for poker. If I don't think they're really committed to that I'll say so. [/ QUOTE ] I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed in that attitude. After what they've done, anything less than that company going under is NOT good for poker. Like many people have already shouted, if other sites see what AP did and also see them get away with it, that will be horrible for everybody. [/ QUOTE ] My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here?
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#7
10-23-2007, 05:42 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. [/ QUOTE ] The only way for the company to pay for its mistakes is for it to go down the tubes. And there is no such thing as a "good" company. Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. That is all.
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#8
10-23-2007, 05:43 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't understand why you're trying to help them get back on their feet. The people who own the company are responsible for the cheating, and you think that cleaning house will solve that problem? How do you wipe out the owners of a buisness and remain viable? [/ QUOTE ] Because AP being clean/open/honest/etc going forward is good for poker. If I don't think they're really committed to that I'll say so. [/ QUOTE ] I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed in that attitude. After what they've done, anything less than that company going under is NOT good for poker. Like many people have already shouted, if other sites see what AP did and also see them get away with it, that will be horrible for everybody. [/ QUOTE ] My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here? [/ QUOTE ] The majority of people I've talked to who have lost money in this situation agree with you
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#9
10-23-2007, 05:44 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here? [/ QUOTE ] I think so. Who wants to see crooks get back on their feet after stealing millions of dollars from their players? You apparently do, and if you're going to represent poker players, this is a conflict of their interest, imo.
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#10
10-23-2007, 05:47 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here? [/ QUOTE ] Nat: 1.) It's your decision on whether you want to "help" or not. Not everyone will agree. Listen to their input if you like. If they flame you, F 'em. 2.) It's by no means clear that you will be "helping" them, if you are as objective as you have lead myself and others to believe. 3.) I think the real issue is that you are gathering information for all of us to make our individual decisions on whether/how the company survives. So this brings up another question to ask them: "Why should we play at your site if the primary beneficiaries will be... well, how can I put this nicely... a bunch of scum-sucking frat boys?"
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