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#2
10-20-2007, 02:13 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplace?
Such cheating maybe. Many other kinds of cheating are usual since month. Its only a question what is cheating ? Guess 8 players that share there pocketcards each other and play in a team against the other 2 players are cheating also. exspecially if they use added a bot.
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#3
10-20-2007, 02:19 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
[ QUOTE ]
Such cheating maybe. Many other kinds of cheating are usual since month. Its only a question what is cheating ? Guess 8 players that share there pocketcards each other and play in a team against the other 2 players are cheating also. exspecially if they use added a bot. [/ QUOTE ] "Fortune's Formula" goes into a story about one of the characters who went to Vegas in the 60's, IIRC, with a team of others and some rudimentary equipment designed to assist in communicating card information to others on the team while playing at the blackjack tables. Online life imitating real life, I guess. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#4
10-20-2007, 02:29 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
[ QUOTE ]
And also, given that AP and UB are owned by the same organization, do you think UB was tainted, as well? Curious for people's thoughts. [/ QUOTE ] Only because the buyout was recent, and not a lot of people know about it. As long as the management is different then UB will be ok.
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#5
10-20-2007, 04:01 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
Pretty much the first step Absolute will have taken in buying out UB is to join up many of the departments.
They will have the same PR dept and they will have the same security dept - these are the two depts that failed so spectacularly with Absolute. I would imagine cheating is pretty commonplace - across all the sites we are talking about a million of people playing at any one time and in that number you will always have cheats just like in life. I cant really speak for everyone, but i believe they have the same sentiment, i dont ask that there is never any cheating on a site because there always will be - i simply ask that they detect that cheating as quickly and efficiently as they can and that when they detect it they deal with it. Where Absolute failed for me is when they didnt detect this for a month, when they were told they instantly denied it, then when it was undeniably true they start making up stories about who did what and how.
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#6
10-20-2007, 05:39 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplace?
the most recent online poker scandal
just serves to reinforce some pertinent facts that have been with the game of poker and quite possibly all of gambling forever. If the stakes are high enough, and if it is possible, cheating CAN and WILL occur… Of course, this applies online— But also to brick and mortar card rooms plush casinos and back alley crap games If you gamble online or off, without a firm grasp of this fact of human history and perhaps human nature, You are asking for trouble… Incomplete information? Obviously, to run a fair and straight poker game online, you NEED to know what cards are dealt to every player on every hand and you would HAVE to SAVE all this information for your own verification of the hand results, winners and losers, stacks, etc… and all this data-information WOULD and WILL be available, as it is happening/generated, but to who? Systems operators and administrators, yes, so called ‘super’ account holders, yes, obviously, if you own the company, or are one of the chief executive, technical, or financial officers, could such information be withheld from you? And of course, such information as 'all the hands of all players' would be oh so lucratively useful to anyone in the games themselves. Do you believe the homily Everyone has their price? Now I am afraid I don’t really see a solution to all this, and I am very sure it applies not just to AP but to ALL the online poker and gaming sites This is a clear and fundamental structural flaw of the online gaming world--the players must trust those who run the games--and while this may indeed be a rare incident at AP, the opportunities for cheating are inherent in the systems design. And this is just one example of one way to cheat…insider collusion… I won’t discuss too much the ever increasing likelihood and existence of the multiple account holders, teams, or just friends, slow playing each other, chip dumping, collusion, "prop" or 'house' players, and other forms of ‘gaming’ the system. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that any two (or more) players Working together via instant message, or telephone, or by pre-arranged codes at a B&M gives them a huge advantage in any game. They are a fact- They exist in the ‘real’ card rooms and casinos. --Well, O.K. the multiple accounts don’t really apply…. But to what extent and degree? And who would even know this? Just the conspirators themselves… And the ones who are caught… Almost certainly the higher the amounts wagered creates a greater incentive for a larger percentage of cheating incidents occurring. And just as most “teams” wouldn’t try to ‘take down’ a 3/6 limit table at the casino or a freeroll online doesn’t mean it can’t be done, it just means that the same such efforts are rewarded greater elsewhere perhaps for practice.. Do teams ever practice? And I am sure that the typical “Isolated incident-nothing to worry about-you can trust us” response that is even now being repeated everywhere by pundits and spokespersons and experts and other “uninterested parties” will more than likely work its soothing magic before too long and it will soon be back to business as usual but the truth is that some forms of cheating may be all but impossible to prevent, let alone detect…especially online I am sure the “industry” wishes that whoever Released these histories and related information won’t do it ever again But I think this sort of thing— honesty— should generally be lauded and encouraged whoever blew this whistle at AP deserves a big fat reward -ok but not at the table— to really engage and enlist my trust, this sort of transparency—the availability of complete hand histories including observers and their ip addresses, to everyone, especially the players themselves, must be mandatory. after the fact of course… somehow I doubt that this will occur So what to do? Ever since I funded my 1st online account, because I felt the plausibility of fairness may and might be remote at all but the lowest stakes, I have never been a large depositor of funds into overseas accounts of unknown origin and uncertain ownership. This, to me, is just common sense. Nor have I played at the higher stakes or huge prize pool tournaments-- save for the occasional satellite win— Sure, I buy in for small stakes forum stuff, and the occasional low limit rings, mtts and sits. Sometimes I have won, but most I have not… And sometimes I have gone broke and reloaded but I would never willingly risk financial ruin online or in a casino….but that is just me… I can’t really say I personally have been cheated. But the real kicker is –I can’t prove that I haven’t… Just like the sites can’t prove all or even any of their games are square…. the near constant shilling of the online poker world and other not uninterested parties, which will no doubt increase exponentially after all this, and the resultant affiliate driven “skin explosion” that can only maximize the risk I am playing the same person in two seats won’t persuade me now, and I am not sure how I could ever be convinced completely to ever deposit ANYWHERE again. But because I love to play I might…but not for a really good long while For those of you who doubt that there is cheating in poker- Both online and off- I recommend the sobering Richard Marcus book “Dirty Poker” To those of you who wonder about the ‘friendliness’ of your local home game I recommend the hilarious “How To Cheat Your Friends at Poker” by Penn Jillette (yes of the illusionist duo/BS hosts) and Mickey D. Lynn
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#7
10-20-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplace?
good read lazrus, thanks.
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#8
10-20-2007, 06:23 PM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
[ QUOTE ]
the most recent online poker scandal just serves to reinforce some pertinent facts that have been with the game of poker and quite possibly all of gambling forever. If the stakes are high enough, and if it is possible, cheating CAN and WILL occur… [/ QUOTE ] am I the only one that read this as spoken word/rap?
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#9
10-21-2007, 02:07 AM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
[ QUOTE ]
am I the only one that read this as spoken word/rap? [/ QUOTE ] I did too. Just disappointed that there weren't any rhymes.
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#10
10-21-2007, 02:26 AM
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Re: In light of the AP scandal, do you think such cheating is commplac
No. At least not if you define cheating outside of the parameters of multiaccounting and maybe some collusion/softplaying. Those have been not unheard of (at least at the very high stakes) for a long time/forever at every site.
On the 'seeing hole cards' kind of cheating though, I think this is probably last for awhile situation (edit:. Unfortunately every $10 NL player who lost a race with AA vs 27o is coming out of the woodwork claiming that there is some sort of legit chance his opponent could see cards to come.
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