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#1
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Poster A says he feels uncomfortable being near someone who wants to carry a gun. Poster B says someone carrying a gun could have potentially stopped the VT shooting - that such a shooting is ALREADY IN PROGRESS is part of the assumption of the statement. Then you jump in. Now, GIVEN that such an event is ALREADY IN PROGRESS, do you agree or disagree that an armed student could have potentially stopped it? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously I agree. The sky is blue and the pope still [censored] in the woods. [ QUOTE ] And in the context of "providing an environment in which these things don't happen," making a campus a "gun free zone" clearly does NOT prevent these things, since VT *IS* a gun free zone. [/ QUOTE ] Can I ask if you think this is a reasonable interpretation of my question? Are you just trying to win an argument here? [ QUOTE ] But since you brought it up, how results-oriented do you think your "lack of similar events in other countries" question is? Do you have any stats? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html<br /> [/ QUOTE ] So in your link of (supposedly) every school shooting in the world, we see an overwhelming majority happen in the US. Your point was...? [ QUOTE ] In regards to the point that you were responding to, how many of these events, many of which occured outside the US, had armed citizens in the area who were *unable* to put a stop to the events? [/ QUOTE ] 5. Definitely exactly 5. [ QUOTE ] On the other hand, we *can* see how easily an armed citizen can put a stop to such mass attacks: [/ QUOTE ] We *can also* see how various other things might put a stop to such mass attacks (such as, ironically, not having them and having massive coverage of them). [ QUOTE ] http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._in_tennessee/ [/ QUOTE ] Yes, why be results oriented when we have this sort... oh wait, no. |
#2
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The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't imply that at all unless you can control for other variables, which is impossible. |
#3
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[ QUOTE ] The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't imply that at all unless you can control for other variables, which is impossible. [/ QUOTE ] Ding, exactly. This may be the first recorded case where I have agreed with xorbie. |
#4
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[ QUOTE ] The US has a disproportionally high number of murders per capita, almost twice that of any comparable western nation. This doesn't imply that US gun laws leads to more murders , but it does imply that they don't lead to less murders. [/ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't imply that at all unless you can control for other variables, which is impossible. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I jumped the gun on that one and it was a false statement, I concede. Still, there are interesting numbers to be found - the statistical difference on these values if you graph all the different crimes types up against other first world nations is extreme. It would seem that on almost other crime types the US is comparable to the same first world nations, but not on gun-related crime. |
#5
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We *can also* see how various other things might put a stop to such mass attacks (such as, ironically, not having them and having massive coverage of them). [/ QUOTE ] And let me guess. Gun control is a way to "ironically, not have them". most of the "worst" (they're all horrible, I'm speaking in pure #'s here) attacks have occured using illegal guns, which means they would've occured regardless of any and all gun control measures. |
#6
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[ QUOTE ] We *can also* see how various other things might put a stop to such mass attacks (such as, ironically, not having them and having massive coverage of them). [/ QUOTE ] And let me guess. Gun control is a way to "ironically, not have them". most of the "worst" (they're all horrible, I'm speaking in pure #'s here) attacks have occured using illegal guns, which means they would've occured regardless of any and all gun control measures. [/ QUOTE ] Gun control at what level? Cultural? Legal? Latter... not gonna help as much is it? |
#7
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Well MidGe, I was going to respond to your responses, but after reading them, I couldn't find a single one that wasn't completely and utterly destroyed by other posters, so I'll just go with these two questions:
1. Based on other posts, just as a general question, where do you think the freedoms you have come from, and who grants you those freedoms? 2. If someone broke down your door and held a loaded gun to a loved ones head, you would prefer to be with, or without a gun at that moment? |
#8
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1. Based on other posts, just as a general question, where do you think the freedoms you have come from, and who grants you those freedoms? [/ QUOTE ] From the experience of many generations that have tried to solve the problems and found that government was the best they could find as an answer to the dilemmas. I mean if it wasn't so, it would not have endured the way it has! [ QUOTE ] 2. If someone broke down your door and held a loaded gun to a loved ones head, you would prefer to be with, or without a gun at that moment? [/ QUOTE ] I may prefer to be with a gun, in that position, however, having a gun doesn't make me the fastest gun in the west, which seems to be the romantic notion you subscribe to, but it is a moot point, a true straw man argument. I would absolutely prefer to live in a society would had very strong gun regulation as it is less likely to happen in that society. |
#9
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[ QUOTE ] 1. Based on other posts, just as a general question, where do you think the freedoms you have come from, and who grants you those freedoms? [/ QUOTE ] From the experience of many generations that have tried to solve the problems and found that government was the best they could find as an answer to the dilemmas. I mean if it wasn't so, it would not have endured the way it has! [ QUOTE ] 2. If someone broke down your door and held a loaded gun to a loved ones head, you would prefer to be with, or without a gun at that moment? [/ QUOTE ] I may prefer to be with a gun, in thatMay having agun doesn't make me the fastest gun in the west, which seems to be the romantic notion you subscribe to, but it is a moot point, a true straw man argument. I would absolutely prefer to live in a society would had very strong gun regulation as it is less likely to happen in that society. [/ QUOTE ] So, your logic is, criminals, who obey no other law, will, out of respect for you, obey the gun laws? |
#10
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So, your logic is, criminals, who obey no other law, will, out of respect for you, obey the gun laws? [/ QUOTE ] Not according to my logic... Your "faulty" logic however assumes that if guns are less readily available they would be as many criminal equipped with them. That is simply moronic NRA propaganda. |
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