PNL Study Group Day 2: Stack Sizes

[stevematador]

I have bought in for 40BB the last 3 nights rather than my usual 100BB. The big thing I noticed is, not only is it easier to play the TPTK as stated in PNL, you get nice low SPR's with ease and you can reach your commitment on the flop by getting 1/3 of your stack in and not looking back. As the authors have stated, it's usually a mistake to fold once you get 1/3 of your stack into the pot. Of course this doesn't mean blindly put 1/3 of your stack in on the flop, but when you feel you are committed (willing to go all in) you can get your 1/3 in and not look back,

The other big thing I realized is when you flop trips, it seems easier to get all your chips in and get called. For example, I had one hand where I limped with 22 and flopped trips on a 9 high board. The villian led out with a pot sized bet and I raised 3x, he thought about it and after using most of his time bank pushed me "all in". I believe my short stack swayed his decision allowing me the profitable action I was seeking. He had A9 (TPTK) and I was able to double up with a dominating hand. If I was 100BB deep I don't even think the villian even calls my flop raise let alone push me "all in."

I know often times we talk about playing less hands for "set value" etc. when playing a short stack, but it is examples like this that I believe playing for set value with shorter stacks allows us to get all our chips in much easier vs. bigger stacks when your stack is less threatening. Players will clash against my short stack with inferior hands over and over because of the less threatening stack size, they don't have the same fear or concern going against me when I only have 40BB behind me.

Obv. where the short stack hurts is when you hit "the nuts" and only double up 40BB rather than 100BB. But I really think it's much easier to get players to commit against the shorter 40BB stack. I know with much more experience it will be more profitable to buy in deep, but if you're like me and struggle at times with difficult post flop decisions with TPTK and such, the shorter buy in can be beneficial not only to building your confidence but your bankroll as well!!!

Thanks so much Matt Flynn and Sunny Mehta, for making my NL game decisions less complex [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[helter skelter]

I don't have much experience in cash NL, since I have mostly played tourneys, but it seems there's a tradeoff. I think a medium or big stack is good to have in case you get in a pot with a well financed donk. On the other hand, you have to play more cautiously against good players, so you might end up giving them good odds on draws because you dont' want make large bets with a hand that might not be best.

As to your comment on getting more action with the set, I had that situation last night. I might have had my turn reraise called if my stack had been shorter, but when I think about it, I wonder if that situation comes up often enough that it should influence the buy-in.

[Fammy]

Hello,

I have been reading (and re-reading) the book and am finding it very helpful. I am also trying to make the switch from Tourney to Cash. I have been a winning (albeit small winning) player and am looking to expand. Currently, I am playing the Micro levels to try to see if I can get a handle on this (0.05-0.10) with an eye toward moving up soon. I have been playing 50BB and have found this to be a fair compromise on the short vs large stack, but wanted opinions on an issue I have been seeing over and over again.

I tend to play a fairly TA game, but will loosen up slightly with position. With an image of being "a donk with the smaller stack", at least at this level, I have been able to generate a slight disconnect between my ability (at least based on my previous experience) and my stack size.

This leads me to the discussion on the Cbet getting people into trouble which seems to be very correct. I have been looking at it from the other side of the coin, however. I have found that when players raise into me for a standard raise (often when I have a ~20%+ hand) I am often able to use position with the strong hand against players who not only are playing too loose, but also don't seem to know when to stop firing bullets...resulting in winning larger pots, or, since I am below the committment threshhold, the ability to bow out quietly with minimal losses if the board looks "bad."

A couple of questions on this?

1) My sample size is VERY small...am I seeing variance or is this close to real at the very low levels? (with the obvious assumption that I have a decent read on the player being LAG or close to it).

2) Is there a blind level where this noticably changes? (i.e. opponents learn to put on the brakes or begin to play in a more tricky manner where I might get into more trouble).

3) Is this a large leak in a cash game? (I have done this in tourney poker, especially when the blinds get bigger as people tend to think they are "pot committed" well before they are in certain tournaments allowing me to stack them)

Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I understand that there are real advantages to playing 100BB, and I am considering this, but one thing struck me...the place where we lose out is when we have the nuts....this doesn't happen very often, and even when it does, we often don't get our whole stack in as the board sometimes gives our hand away.

Is it better to give up some equity for the few times we have the nuts AND are able to stack our opponents, vs the many multiple times playing with a somewhat shorter stack will make overall decisions easier?

Thanks in advance.

Fammy

[Sunny Mehta]

Hi Fammy,

Thanks for the post. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but it sounds like you're asking two different things. One, "is playing a 50bb stack acceptable or effective in certain situations?" Of course it is. Particularly if you're new to cash games, as you mentioned you are. Your mistakes are limited, and you can get a "feel" for the game without being uncomfortable.

Secondly, it sounds like you're asking "is it okay to flat call preflop with strong hands rather than reraise?" Of course it is. Particularly with a 50bb stack, this often works well with strong top pair hands. If your opponents will fold weaker portions of their range to a rr, and in addition, they'll keep firing at you postflop when you let them have initiative, why not trap more?

Thanks,

Sunny