The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris

[madnak]

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I still can't shake the feeling that as soon as I say I am an agnostic, however, the theist I'm talking to is going to think something like "Well thats practically a Christian, he's just a bit confused, we all have crises of faith after all."

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It's also giving in to a culture that insists on discriminating against atheists.

[madnak]

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The point is that many, if not most, atheists are atheists for illogical or insufficient reasons. There is a lot of amazing stuff that occurs in this universe and to believe that there was absolutely no intelligent design to any of it at all, requires a person who is either a shoddy thinker, or a person who is well versed in the scientific concepts that explain in detail how undesigned rules can lead to such complexity. A third category of course is a less educated person who has great trust in those in the second category.

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Highly illogical. That we can't explain something doesn't indicate that God exists. This is not a rational position, David. And there is no such thing as "insufficient evidence" where disbelief is concerned. If there is insufficient evidence for the existence of God, then it is rational to doubt God's existence. There's no need for scientific knowledge or any other sort of education or justification.

[vhawk01]

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If you don't breed you are sure to be no more than a footnote in history.

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I think this comment deserves extra attention. Its such a fantastic point! I mean, who remembers George Washington, Harriet Tubman, Joan of Arc, Mother Theresa, Immanuel Kant, Louis Armstrong, Francis Bacon, Beethoven, Copernicus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Rene Descartes, Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Plato, Rosa Parks, Nietzche, and of course, Jesus Christ.

[chezlaw]

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If you don't breed you are sure to be no more than a footnote in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this comment deserves extra attention. Its such a fantastic point! I mean, who remembers George Washington, Harriet Tubman, Joan of Arc, Mother Theresa, Immanuel Kant, Louis Armstrong, Francis Bacon, Beethoven, Copernicus, Leonardo Da Vinci, Rene Descartes, Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Plato, Rosa Parks, Nietzche, and of course, Jesus Christ .

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ralph Wiggum]

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So to say "ourselves" ( atheists) should be made synonymous with 'reason' would be dishonest.

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I agree w/ you, but we're not trying to align atheism & reason. Rather get rid of the entire notion of atheism by not mentioning it. Similarly to how non-racist is never used.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> But the bottom line is that there are a lot of atheists who have come to their beliefs.... </font>

Stop! Atheism is not a belief! Someone please put this in a FAQ. Ok, "strong" atheism might be a belief, but Harris is absolutely correct when he says we should stop calling ourselves atheists. The term shouldn't exist.

<font color="blue"> ...merely because there is no obvious evidence of God or because the God of most religions seems to have inconsistent or cruel aspects to him. </font>

And what's wrong with this? There is no obvious evidence that there is an invisible leprechaun living in my closet. It is inconsistent with all my other worldly experiences and obvservations. What's your point here?

[luckyme]

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<font color="blue"> But the bottom line is that there are a lot of atheists who have come to their beliefs.... </font>

Stop! Atheism is not a belief! Someone please put this in a FAQ. Ok, "strong" atheism might be a belief, but Harris is absolutely correct when he says we should stop calling ourselves atheists. The term shouldn't exist.

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I like to be able to say I'm a non-swimmer, non-drinker, non-theist. what's the problem?
No, I don't mean the problem that ignorance of word usage causes, but that simply, it's a perfectly good word that describes an actual state of affairs in the universe.

The word should exist. It's existence confuses already confused people ... that's the problem.

luckyme

[chezlaw]

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<font color="blue"> But the bottom line is that there are a lot of atheists who have come to their beliefs.... </font>

Stop! Atheism is not a belief! Someone please put this in a FAQ. Ok, "strong" atheism might be a belief, but Harris is absolutely correct when he says we should stop calling ourselves atheists. The term shouldn't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to be able to say I'm a non-swimmer, non-drinker, non-theist. what's the problem?
No, I don't mean the problem that ignorance of word usage causes, but that simply, it's a perfectly good word that describes an actual state of affairs in the universe.

The word should exist. It's existence confuses already confused people ... that's the problem.

luckyme

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The word should exist but its not a belief.

Incidently I think DS means something different by god then Harris and just about everyone else. Even the strongest atheists accept DS's god might exist.

chez

[vhawk01]

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So to say "ourselves" ( atheists) should be made synonymous with 'reason' would be dishonest.

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I agree w/ you, but we're not trying to align atheism &amp; reason. Rather get rid of the entire notion of atheism by not mentioning it. Similarly to how non-racist is never used.

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Right, there are probably completely unreasonable reasons to be a non-racist, but we aren't talking about any of that.

[David Sklansky]

"Highly illogical. That we can't explain something doesn't indicate that God exists."

Yes it does. As long as we are careful to define "God" and "can't explain" in the way I mean. I will let (I can't believe I'm writing this) chezlaw elaborate.