Which play is the RIGHT play??

[drzen]

Don't be results oriented. You are going to get sucked out on A LOT. It doesn't mean you played badly.

[Josem]

it would be a very rare situation to fold two-pair or better on the flop.

that said, betting around pot-sized bets (or raising a similar amount) is probably fine.



all you can do is bet when you have the best hand. let the poker gods worry about the rest.

[Jobo]

Thanks for the positive reinforcement. Its good to know I made the right plays, even if my betting choices might not have been summed correctly. I've yet to read anything concerning bet sizes and how to choose them, read them, etc. I have some more poker-book purchases still to make.

In regards to bet-sizes... in these s&g's you start with 1500 chips, and an initial BB of 30. Raising 3x the BB pre-flop for 90 (or is that 90 + 30 = 120?), or making a pot-sized bet after a flop with 4 limpers for, again, 120... well everyone just calls, often with garbage that manages to strike gold on the flop. There's no protecting your hand with those 'small' bets, from what I've seen so far. And then its a race to see who completes better hands on the Turn and River. In order for me to control the range of possible hands I'm up against, and to push out the weaker hands, I've noticed I have to raise 300-500 chips (even early in the tourney). Only when I want people to stick around will I raise "only" the size of the pot. It's the only way I can get reads on people too sometimes, before I've seen them play a lotta hands. Is this what "overbetting" the pot is? Because if I'm not limping in with small pocket pairs or suited connectors, then I'm raising like 5x the BB at least pre-flop, that way, I feel, I keep my opponents honest, LOL.

Ooh, wait, then I guess if I've raised PF, and had callers, the pot would be bigger, so a 'pot-sized' bet would look more reasonable... but I'll tell ya, little bets don't drive anyone off.

Of course, I often feel compelled to place continuing-bet after a garbage flop. But then the smart ones realize that, unless I have an over-pair in the pocket, I've missed the flop so they come over the top of me with a re-raise. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]*angry face!* [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] (how do I deal with that? Are they bluffing too? Call and pray that I pair one of my paint-cards? Yikes!).

As for hand converters... I've just figured them out and I'll try to use em next time. My appologies. I only find a few minutes here and there to post or read posts during the day and I've only recently located the links to the converters.

[drzen]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the positive reinforcement. Its good to know I made the right plays, even if my betting choices might not have been summed correctly. I've yet to read anything concerning bet sizes and how to choose them, read them, etc. I have some more poker-book purchases still to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed Miller's book "Professional No-Limit Holdem" might help, particularly his discussion of commitment, which I think if you adapt it to SNGs is very useful in thinking about how much to bet.

[ QUOTE ]
In regards to bet-sizes... in these s&g's you start with 1500 chips, and an initial BB of 30. Raising 3x the BB pre-flop for 90 (or is that 90 + 30 = 120?), or making a pot-sized bet after a flop with 4 limpers for, again, 120... well everyone just calls, often with garbage that manages to strike gold on the flop. There's no protecting your hand with those 'small' bets, from what I've seen so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

So don't make them.

[ QUOTE ]
And then its a race to see who completes better hands on the Turn and River. In order for me to control the range of possible hands I'm up against, and to push out the weaker hands, I've noticed I have to raise 300-500 chips (even early in the tourney).

[/ QUOTE ]

So long as you're playing ultratight, what's the problem?

[ QUOTE ]
Only when I want people to stick around will I raise "only" the size of the pot. It's the only way I can get reads on people too sometimes, before I've seen them play a lotta hands. Is this what "overbetting" the pot is? Because if I'm not limping in with small pocket pairs or suited connectors, then I'm raising like 5x the BB at least pre-flop, that way, I feel, I keep my opponents honest, LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds about right.

[ QUOTE ]
Ooh, wait, then I guess if I've raised PF, and had callers, the pot would be bigger, so a 'pot-sized' bet would look more reasonable... but I'll tell ya, little bets don't drive anyone off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you have hit the nail on the head. You can rarely "drive them off" if they're that loose. So what's the answer?

Bet more when you have the goods; don't bet at all when you don't.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I often feel compelled to place continuing-bet after a garbage flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop feeling compelled to do that. If you have been called by a crowd, you are throwing money away. If you have it heads up, that's different.

[ QUOTE ]
But then the smart ones realize that, unless I have an over-pair in the pocket, I've missed the flop so they come over the top of me with a re-raise. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]*angry face!* [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] (how do I deal with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you play when you hit the flop? How do you play when you have the overpair? They can only get a read on you if they've seen you play each type of hand a different way. If you c-bet half the pot when you miss, and put in a potsized bet when you hit, you're liable to be caught out if anyone's paying attention (luckily, most don't).

A lot of players in the minis seem to go with the assumption that a biggish raise preflop is AK, and if AK has missed, their pair is good. You need to have spotted them earlier in the tourney (when they've made the same play on someone else). I cut the likelihood of this happening by making my cbets a bit more than half the pot. This makes them a worse proposition for me, but I think I win more often because of it, so it kind of evens out.

[ QUOTE ]
Are they bluffing too? Call and pray that I pair one of my paint-cards? Yikes!).

[/ QUOTE ]

If they minraise, yes, sometimes they're bluffing. They'd need reason to think you're tight though, so I think this is going to happen more after a couple of levels and less very early.

I don't know about others here, but I generally assume they have *something* and call only if I have pot odds to do so, which is a bit unlikely unless I picked up a draw as well.