Over cards on the river?

[just2fast]

MP3 is very loose and aggressive. My image at the table is tight. I bet the flop to test for jacks, he showed no aggression until the river. Should I have c/c the River?

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls.

River: (8.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

[BigBadBabar]

i would fold the river as i don't think you beat anything

[Oink]

wow this is bad!

Flop donk is just poor poker

Ask yourself these questions:

- what better hand in MP3's range is he going to fold?

- what worse hand is he going to call BUT NOT BET with?

Unless you can name at least a few here then your flop donk is God [censored] awful. (sorry!)


Ok so you got two callers. The 3-bettor and a guy who called 3 cold preflop. How good do you think your equity is on the turn? (its bad!). And yet you bet again [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

The river hits the only hand that really makes sense for MP3 to have; AK. And yet you bet/call. What? why? wtf?

You should have c/f the flop. If not at least c/f the turn.

Here is some news for you btw. YOU DONT HAVE TO WIN EVERY POT!

[just2fast]

I agree with most, but I couldn't put him on anything, he never folds. I had seen him cap flop and call down to river with middle pair with no draws for him on board. The only options I saw on the flop were c/f or b/f. With this player just calling my bet I took him off the J and put him on small pocket pair.

The numbers from Poker Stove. I agree though, I should have c/f the flop and waited for the next hand. Not getting any reads and the wild play leaves me lost here. Need more experience.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.616% 38.70% 01.92% 373963226 18544594.00 { AdQh }
Hand 1: 29.692% 28.18% 01.51% 272362581 14574294.00 { random }
Hand 2: 29.692% 28.18% 01.51% 272362581 14574294.00 { random }

[nightwood]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with most, but I couldn't put him on anything, he never folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

These donks can be annoying. But the right moment to make 'em pay is when you have a hand. 3barreling here with A-high is pure spew.

And why for god's sake did you be the turn ?

[just2fast]

I thought he might fold for the first time in the session in fear of my A high hand. Poker stove gives me the equity with a random hand.


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 61.997% 60.23% 01.77% 538404 15833.00 { AdQh }
Hand 1: 38.003% 36.23% 01.77% 323900 15833.00 { random }

Of course, that all changed when he raised. Not folding the flop, no doubt I should have folded on the river.

[Fantam]

I would probably have check/called the flop. You may have had some overcard outs against hands like TT,QQ,KK &amp; AK, and the pot was quite big.

I would not have contributed any more bets to the pot, after you did not improve on the turn.

The other thing to bear in mind, was that you had 2 opponents from the flop onwards. If either of them had trip J's then you were drawing dead after the turn.

c/c flop &amp; c/f turn, or c/f flop were your best options IMHO.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he might fold for the first time in the session in fear of my A high hand. Poker stove gives me the equity with a random hand.


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 61.997% 60.23% 01.77% 538404 15833.00 { AdQh }
Hand 1: 38.003% 36.23% 01.77% 323900 15833.00 { random }

Of course, that all changed when he raised. Not folding the flop, no doubt I should have folded on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all. He doesnt have a random hand. Even loose aggressive players select their hands before 3-betting preflop.

Second. YOU ARE NOT HU ON THE TURN? You need to worry about the third guy as well!


In my first post I misread your hand. I thought it was MP3 who raised the river. Actually it is button who called 3 cold preflop. Seriously, you are never ever ever ever good after that river raise.

I want to say again: YOU DONT HAVE TO WIN EVERY POT!

[BigBadBabar]

wait i misread the action

why did you bet the flop

[just2fast]

Thanks for the Ed Miller Book Recommendation. I'm reading it now.