Question about tourney rules

[pantsdown]

Wondering if someone could help me with this. Situation in the tournament was as as follows.

Blinds 200/400, UTG player goes all in for 700, I'm next to act and I want to call.

Now the player who has just pushed all in starts telling me I need to put in 800 because it must be double the big blind. Is this correct, or can I just put in 700 to call?

[AngusThermopyle]

All you need to put in is 700 (the amount of the current bet).

He might have been confused with the situation where he puts in 300 all-in pre-flop. Then you would be required to put in 400 (the size of the BB, which is treated as a bet).

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You can just call his bet.The only7 time you'd have to put in more would be if his all-in were less than 1 bb.

[poker_bill]

If you're calling, you're fine; if you want to raise, you have to raise it to at least 800.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're calling, you're fine; if you want to raise, you have to raise it to at least 800.

[/ QUOTE ]

The raising part of this advice is incorrect Completing the bet is a Limit concept. However, even in Limit, if the all-in bet is more than half a full raise (i.e. $200 or more - in this case the raise was three hundred) then you can not complete the bet. If you want to raise, the minimum raise is 400, so you would have to make it 1100 in a limit tourney, or 1100 or more in a NL tourney.

Suppose the all in raise was to, say 580 -- less than half of a full raise -- in a limit tourney you could call 580, or complete the bet to 800 (but you could not raise to 980.) In a NL tourney you could call the 580 or raise to 980 (or higher if you wish) but you can not complete the bet to $800.

The answer to the OP's question, however, is yes, you can just call the 700 in both Limit and NL.

[pantsdown]

Yeah thats exactly what I thought, of course the tourney director was brainless and no help in the matter so I just kept my mouth shut this time.

This is the second argument about rules I have had in this game. The tourney director is really arrogant and cant admit when he is wrong.

I have had another argument with him before when I told someone that if they want to raise it must be double the previous bet, not just the bet plus one more big blind
The blinds were 50/100 and someone bet 500, then a player announced a raise to 600, I tried to tell them it was not enough for a raise. The TD's response was "this is NO LIMIT, you can bet whatever amount you want as long as its more than the blinds"

Its really quite embaressing when I know I'm right and both the other players and tournament director tell me I'm wrong. On occasion I have walked out of the tournament early because of this.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah thats exactly what I thought, of course the tourney director was brainless and no help in the matter so I just kept my mouth shut this time.

This is the second argument about rules I have had in this game. The tourney director is really arrogant and cant admit when he is wrong.

I have had another argument with him before when I told someone that if they want to raise it must be double the previous bet, not just the bet plus one more big blind
The blinds were 50/100 and someone bet 500, then a player announced a raise to 600, I tried to tell them it was not enough for a raise. The TD's response was "this is NO LIMIT, you can bet whatever amount you want as long as its more than the blinds"

Its really quite embaressing when I know I'm right and both the other players and tournament director tell me I'm wrong. On occasion I have walked out of the tournament early because of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get his email addy, you might email him Roberts Rules, and quote the relevant rule in the body of your email. I'd try to be nice, something along the lines of, "I'm used to playing with standard rules, I didn't know if you had a copy of these or not. House rules always trump the standard rules, of course, but since I'm used to standard rules, if you are purposely going with rule variants could you advice me on which ones you've changed so I don't get caught by surprise?"

I played in a tourney once, where they had a really idiodic rule in place. I argued about it at the time, but didn't blow my top (the rule was a really bad one) and later emailed the host very politely about it with a cite to the correct rule. He emailed me back, said I was right and we'd use the correct rule from them on.

Your mileage may vary with this approach, of course, but I think its worthwile as this second rule you are talking about is a pretty fundamental rule, much more distressing than whether they let you call 700 or make you raise to 800.

You could, of course, print out a copy of Roberts Rules, and take it with you, for backup when arguing these points.

[France]

[ QUOTE ]
You can just call his bet.The only time you'd have to put in more would be if his all-in were less than 1 bb.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was in this situation once, where my all-in was less than the BB. I lost the hand, but if I had won, would I have gotten the complete BB's that the callers had bet? Or would the pot have been split proportionate to my incomplete bet?

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can just call his bet.The only time you'd have to put in more would be if his all-in were less than 1 bb.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was in this situation once, where my all-in was less than the BB. I lost the hand, but if I had won, would I have gotten the complete BB's that the callers had bet? Or would the pot have been split proportionate to my incomplete bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot win more from another player than what you put in.

If the BB were 400 and you only had 300, you could win your 300 plus 300 from everybody else who puts in at least 300 (which will be everybody who plays, except short stacks smaller than 300) plus any smaller stacks (ie if the SB of 200 does not play, you could win his 200).
Any extra chips are a side pot and go to the next best hand (assuming you won the main pot).

[runout_mick]

[ QUOTE ]
I told someone that if they want to raise it must be double the previous bet, not just the bet plus one more big blind

[/ QUOTE ]

You're closer than them, but still a tad wrong. To reraise, your minimum bet must be equal or greater to the current bet size plus the amount of the previous raise.

Say the blinds are 10/20. A player raises to 70 preflop. The minimum you can reraise to is 120. The bet is 70 and he has set the minimum raise increment at 50. Say you reraise to 170. Now if he wishes to raise again, it must be to at least 270. 170 plus the increment of 100 that you have set.

Hope this helps.

[ QUOTE ]
On occasion I have walked out of the tournament early because of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

That'll teach 'em! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]