1-2 at Commerce

[tongni]

[ QUOTE ]
I may suck at poker but I definitely would not read your hand as strong if you took this line. If a blank rolled off on the turn and you raised you can never have a big hand right? If a complete blank came on the turn and you raised me, if I was in Tongni's spot I would 3 bet if I had a draw and I would call and donk a safe river if I had a king. Am I the only one that feels this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much how I feel too.

[Michael Davis]

"I purposely did not 3 bet the flop because neither player behind me is folding a K here (for 2 bets on the flop)"

Why are you putting anyone behind you on a K? Also, I don't think anyone who suggested threebet was expecting you to fold out a better hand.

-Michael

[Turning Stone Pro]

I remember when I at least could talk a halfway decent game of limit Hold'Em.

These days, my mind has become so lazy and flabby from lack of play and competition that I read a decent thread like this and I feel like a fat, out-of-shape slob tryin' to run around a high school track in an attempt to kid myself into believing the years and the cheeseburgers haven't taken their toll.

TSP

[mtgordon]

I don't understand the flop re-raise that a lot of people are recommending. I don't think we're ahead here enough nor can we get a better hand to fold enough to make it profitable. I guess part of it is if we think that Tongni will fire the turn again with the flush draw. If so I think it's a lot better to wait until a non-diamond hits and then raise for a free showdown.

Alright, let me know why I'm wrong [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[mike l.]

"I don't understand the flop re-raise that a lot of people are recommending."

it's the lesser of 3 evils. this one reason why raising in that spot with ATo in that game is such a bad idea, it puts you in uncomfortable oop spots postflop way too often.

"I don't think we're ahead here enough nor can we get a better hand to fold enough to make it profitable."

true. but we can get gutshots behind us of which there are plenty to fold for two more bets some of the time and get it heads up in position with what might be a draw or a K that is not good enough for tongni to want to play very aggressively thus saving hero money.


"I guess part of it is if we think that Tongni will fire the turn again with the flush draw."

there's a very good chance he's too smart to do that and will smell a turn raise coming.

[Schneids]

Against tongni's checkraise I prefer not reraising the flop, and also, I would now fold on this turn. In my view folding > raising > calling.

Why no flop reraise?: His hand range is a lot smaller here than most people realize. It is very much weighted towards set, AK, KQ, and maybe the occasional QJ or flush draw (I say occasional because he's not an idiot and sees you raised UTG and bet on the flop, he is aware there's some percent chance his checkraise gets 3-bet because that board hits your UTG range hard a ton).

I know there's some value in knocking out 2 other opponents, but it's a situation that doesn't matter at all vs his checkraising range.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Against tongni's checkraise I prefer not reraising the flop, and also, I would now fold on this turn. In my view folding > raising > calling.

Why no flop reraise?: His hand range is a lot smaller here than most people realize. It is very much weighted towards set, AK, KQ, and maybe the occasional QJ or flush draw (I say occasional because he's not an idiot and sees you raised UTG and bet on the flop, he is aware there's some percent chance his checkraise gets 3-bet because that board hits your UTG range hard a ton).

I know there's some value in knocking out 2 other opponents, but it's a situation that doesn't matter at all vs his checkraising range.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't tongni good enough to fold KQ on the river if we barrell every street after 3 boning the flop?

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against tongni's checkraise I prefer not reraising the flop, and also, I would now fold on this turn. In my view folding > raising > calling.

Why no flop reraise?: His hand range is a lot smaller here than most people realize. It is very much weighted towards set, AK, KQ, and maybe the occasional QJ or flush draw (I say occasional because he's not an idiot and sees you raised UTG and bet on the flop, he is aware there's some percent chance his checkraise gets 3-bet because that board hits your UTG range hard a ton).

I know there's some value in knocking out 2 other opponents, but it's a situation that doesn't matter at all vs his checkraising range.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't tongni good enough to fold KQ on the river if we barrell every street after 3 boning the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it's possible (though not a sure thing at all), but that's such a small portion of his hand range IMO, that it'd be a -EV play to be trying to get him to fold that when there's still the sets and AK and KT to be worrying about.

[Mig]

I don't think he slow plays (just call) AK preflop vs 4 players so I believe we have to put more value on the flush draw and OESD type of hands. I'd prefer to 3 bet it right now hand have a hand having 6-7 clean outs vs our hand to fold. Maybe we can get a fold from all the gutters hands which would be really great for our hand... We might not have the best hand right now but I don't think he will overplay a hand like AK/KQ on the flop since this flop is so good for a UTG raiser. Even with TPTK, I'd slow down a lot when UTG 3 bets.