Is it wrong to listen to Nazi bands?

[slothinator]

OK, I had a feeling my "if you don't agree with their politics, you shouldn't listeen to their music" would draw criticism. To the best of my ability, I'll defend.

I knew the rap comparison was coming. Rappers are basically actors with albums instead of movies. They are playing a role, and their lyrics reflect the role they are playing. Except in a very few rare instances, these guys aren't shooting people and beating down bitches. It's an act, and they are playing a character.

Nazi bands and white supremesists advocate violence against minorities. This isn't an act, this what they actually believe. While rap music is fictional and meant for entertainment purposes, hate music is meant to spread a message of violence and hatred towards minorities. So while I do not think it is unreasonable for a person to listen to fictitious songs about gang banging, I cannot see how anybody would want to listen to music that openly advocates hurting and / or killing minorities. Especially when they know the artist is sincere in the message they are placing in the lyrics.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I had a feeling my "if you don't agree with their politics, you shouldn't listeen to their music" would draw criticism. To the best of my ability, I'll defend.

I knew the rap comparison was coming. Rappers are basically actors with albums instead of movies. They are playing a role, and their lyrics reflect the role they are playing. Except in a very few rare instances, these guys aren't shooting people and beating down bitches. It's an act, and they are playing a character.

Nazi bands and white supremesists advocate violence against minorities. This isn't an act, this what they actually believe. While rap music is fictional and meant for entertainment purposes, hate music is meant to spread a message of violence and hatred towards minorities. So while I do not think it is unreasonable for a person to listen to fictitious songs about gang banging, I cannot see how anybody would want to listen to music that openly advocates hurting and / or killing minorities. Especially when they know the artist is sincere in the message they are placing in the lyrics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too easy. You make too many assumptions about what too many different artists do and don't believe. How do you know if Ice Tea really "means" Cop Killah or however it was spelled? He certainly claimed to believe in its message at the time. Nobody gave you special access as to what they guy believes. And he's just one among dozens, all of whom you really know nothing about. And many of whom claim to believe what they say in their records.

While your point that the true racist nazi bands are, well, true racists is self-evidently true, you are basically taking sides out of personal preference when you blanketly disavow any bad intent in the feelings, beliefs, and products of a bunch of artists you really don't know.

And whose product and public speech often does everything possible to disagree with you as their outlook and intent being entirely benign.

[luckyjimm]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I had a feeling my "if you don't agree with their politics, you shouldn't listeen to their music" would draw criticism. To the best of my ability, I'll defend.

I knew the rap comparison was coming. Rappers are basically actors with albums instead of movies. They are playing a role, and their lyrics reflect the role they are playing. Except in a very few rare instances, these guys aren't shooting people and beating down bitches. It's an act, and they are playing a character.

Nazi bands and white supremesists advocate violence against minorities. This isn't an act, this what they actually believe. While rap music is fictional and meant for entertainment purposes, hate music is meant to spread a message of violence and hatred towards minorities. So while I do not think it is unreasonable for a person to listen to fictitious songs about gang banging, I cannot see how anybody would want to listen to music that openly advocates hurting and / or killing minorities. Especially when they know the artist is sincere in the message they are placing in the lyrics.

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Yes, I take your point. However, what I'm saying is the goth/darkwave artists I used to listen to, and have tried listening to again recently, were equally actors playing a role, adopting the taboo iconography of Nazism/the Occult. The bands I've mentioned are just a little more underground than Marilyn Manson, but along the same lines I think.

Try listening to this, for example:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kt3KjmpvrxA

An incredible song, I think. The lyrics, as always with Death in June, are sparse, dark, disturbing:

"Take a walk down Heaven Street
The soil is soft and the air smells sweet
Paul is waiting there
And so is Franz
Now only memories run on railway tracks.

This road leads to Heaven.

Waiting feet frozen to the ground
The earth exploding with the gas of bodies
Rifle butts
To crush you down
Now only flowers
To idolize.

This road leads to Heaven"

I think this band are no more Nazis than Ice-T was a real-life copkiller, but the audience buy into the frisson of danger which the artists play up to, realising it's part of their appeal; it makes them seem "edgy".

[Cornell Fiji]

I made a post about Prussian Blue a while back

Here is the thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9450176

Here is a pretty amazing documentary on the band:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...39898277591286



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For some reason I find young racists to be fascinating. These girls must have had some expert parenting.

These two 14 year old girls started a band "Prussian Blue" that sings about White Supremacy. They first went on tour at the age of 11 singing about the benefits of segregation and white pride.

In an ABC News Article about the girls they said:
"We're proud of being white, we want to keep being white," said Lynx. "We want our people to stay white … we don't want to just be, you know, a big muddle. We just want to preserve our race."

A Wikipedia on the band contained the following info:
"The twins said they believe Adolf Hitler was a great man with good ideas, such as eugenic standards and incentives to improve the genetic quality of the German people... In the interview, the twins described the Holocaust as being exaggerated.

They have recently been criticized for stipulating that goods they donated to Hurricane Katrina victims should go only to white people..."



They also have their own website Prussian Blue Website on which you can see fan letters (which are fairly disturbing to read when you realize the age of the writers) and troll around in their forums.

Thoughts...?

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[luckyjimm]

I think Prussian Blue and "the true Nazi bands", then, aren't what we should be talking about here. What's more interesting to look at is bands who use objectionable imagery, whether Nazi / gangster / occult, and whether our judgement of the way in which this imagery is being used should preclude how we aesthetically respond to their music.

[Case Closed]

luckyjimm,

I understand what you mean. I bet most of Rage Against the Machine fans would never agree with their core believes, advocating violence against police and the state or being anti-capitalism. That does not stop them enjoying the tunes and buying their CDs wholesale.

You must understand though, no matter what, you can never portray Nazism, in any shape or form, in a positive light because people will consider you an evil racist and will one up other people to show how not racist they are.

[Knuckles]

I stopped listening to Rage once I understand them for the Marxist bastards they are.

As far as Nazi bands go, I wouldn't be listening to them and I would seriously doubt the intentions of anyone who listens to them. Forget all this context bs, they are glorifying a movement that killed 6 million people. When your listening to this music for whatever reason your tacitly supporting their message. If you are buying there CDs then you are actively supporting Nazis.

[wtfsvi]

It's not wrong but it makes you seem pretty stupid.

[Triumph36]

luckyjimm:

sounds like you need some DJ Adolf. These were Hitler speeches set to catchy dance music. My favorite track was Unser Deutsches Volk Seig Heil.

[TheBlueMonster]

it's not wrong to listen. They're just [censored] faced douchebag [censored]