A unique "fear" of playing

[AMT]

thanks all, I think a lot of the suggestions here are good ones. I don't use music that much at the table for fear of losing focus but I think I should, at least at the beggining of sessions more often.

I'm going to make a conscious effort next time to vocally walk myself through what it is I'm feeling and suggestions such as bones' on making sure I don't focus on the money. Though I do feel I always try to make the best decisions, the money is inevitably an underlying factor that I should just get out of my head. Thanks for the replies, if anyone has anything else feel free to chime in, I could use all the help I can get [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Hince]

I get the same way when I am winning. Typically it helps me play better. But if I am on a hot streak I get scared of the cards breaking the other way.

Usually once I start playing, things get very natural and I have fun.

Fear use to really bother me, but then I changed my perspective of it. Now I view it as a sign of readiness.

When I was in college, I use to get nervous before a big test. However, if I knew I wasn't ready for a test I was totally calm because I already knew the outcome.

Usually when I don't feel that nervousness it is because I am tired, depressed, or tilty and shouldn't be playing.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Alex,

This was basically me last year. Eventually I figured out that deep down, the pain of losing was greater than the joy of winning. I expected to win everytime I played (I miss you, Party. Come back), so it was a pretty big letdown when I didn't, even though logically I understood the concept of variance. I had a personal attachment to losing, like a bad session was a failure.

1- Stop caring about money. You don't need that much, and you have some. Whatever happens on that single day won't make a difference in your life and will likely be forgotten within a week.

2- Realize that everytime you play, you're there to make decisions, not make money. It's not enough to just say "okay, yeah I understand ev, don't be results oriented, blah blah..." You actually have to convince yourself 100%.

3-

4- Profit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bones, great advice! Thanks! The problem OP and others have talked about in this thread applies very much to me as well.

Your point about "Whatever happens on that single day won't make a difference in your life and will likely be forgotten within a week." is spot on and is pretty easy for me to implement.

Your second point is more difficult to implement. I fully understand logically about EV decisions, and bad results are often really good in the long run if I got my money in good, etc. But how do you "convince yourself 100%"? I am convinced 100% logically, but there is an emotional or some other level that brings the fear/anxiety/tilt when results don't go my way.

I'm also curious how you were able to achieve these insights? Has your fear/anxiety gone away entirely?

[john kane]

ive been playing for 3 years. the last 200K hands have been straight upwards, only one noticably downswing which i reversed. barely any 10K breakeven streaks. i sat down and always ran well (in 2007 something like $19K up than i should be on my all in hands).

last 50K hands now breakeven. i've lost all confidence and motivation. i sit down, play, sometimes win some, then i quit after losing a few buyins, regardless of how the hand played.

anytime i lose a 2 buyins i feel gutted, and wonder what i have done to deserve this.

i wish i could offer advice, but im probably in the top 1% of sufferers from this. ask anyone in msnl who has to put up with my moaning posts.

i'm now playing 2-4nl on a 375 buyin roll. how [censored] up is it that i get so frustrated by losing 2 buyins.

all about each day progressing to a more financially secure future. any day i lose, is a day wasted (unless i havent played and had fun going out etc)

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alex,

This was basically me last year. Eventually I figured out that deep down, the pain of losing was greater than the joy of winning. I expected to win everytime I played (I miss you, Party. Come back), so it was a pretty big letdown when I didn't, even though logically I understood the concept of variance. I had a personal attachment to losing, like a bad session was a failure.

1- Stop caring about money. You don't need that much, and you have some. Whatever happens on that single day won't make a difference in your life and will likely be forgotten within a week.

2- Realize that everytime you play, you're there to make decisions, not make money. It's not enough to just say "okay, yeah I understand ev, don't be results oriented, blah blah..." You actually have to convince yourself 100%.

3-

4- Profit!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bones, great advice! Thanks! The problem OP and others have talked about in this thread applies very much to me as well.

Your point about "Whatever happens on that single day won't make a difference in your life and will likely be forgotten within a week." is spot on and is pretty easy for me to implement.

Your second point is more difficult to implement. I fully understand logically about EV decisions, and bad results are often really good in the long run if I got my money in good, etc. But how do you "convince yourself 100%"? I am convinced 100% logically, but there is an emotional or some other level that brings the fear/anxiety/tilt when results don't go my way.

I'm also curious how you were able to achieve these insights? Has your fear/anxiety gone away entirely?

[/ QUOTE ]

The insights came from really working to figure out the root of my problems. I'm naturally introspective and when I feel like I have an irrational fear or problem, I try to get to the source of it and work it out.

I've been intending to write a semi-long post in this forum, but here's the very abbreviated version. Basically all of my poker playing friends are significantly better than I am. It's become both frustrating and disheartening. The money doesn't really mean anything to me anymore, both on and off the table. I care much more about my development as a player than whether I win or lose in a particular session. That's opened up a whole new set of problems, but for the time being, it's helped me get over the "don't play out of fear of losing" mentality.

[dwf76]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel the exact same thing and contribute it to a subconscious fear of failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank god for this thread and responses I know exactly how you feel.

Good luck to everyone trying to overcome this fear.

[ski]

I made almost this exact post a few days ago in the psych forum.

[yimyammer]

I feel the same way, but when I sit down it usually disappears after a few minutes.

It's like everytime I sit down to play I perceive everyone at the table to be total sharks that are going to destroy me. What I continually find shocking is that often times the majority of the players are downright awful.

I played in a $125 sit n go at the WSOP and when I first sat down, I was nervous and perceived all my opponents to be great, after a few hands, I was in awe.

Sample:

Under the gun raises 3xBB, next player reraises all in (50BB), button goes all in, under the gun calls.

Under the gun has Ah5h???, next player has QQ and Button has aces. Of course, the queens won. I was shocked to see it wasn't even as tough as my $3 STT on Stars.

Next hand I'm in the cutoff with QQ and the guy to my right raised 3BB, I reraised to 9BB and he pushed on me. I was thinking I had ran into a cooler when I made the call for all my chips. He turned over Qd10d...WTF?

I saw the same crap when I played in the main event of the WSOP in 2006.

Sometimes I get that nervous feeling when I've won a few pots in a row and then I keep getting good cards and start to fear a suck out coming because people are going to think I'm raising with junk.

I also feel this way when I have had a pretty good win. I guess I fear losing it all back.

I've been thinking I need to start doing crazy S.hit like sky diving and bungy jumping so playing poker will feel like a walk in the park.

[fitnessfreak]

i am seriously amazed at how accurately OP's current approach to poker reflects my own.

during march i was crushing msnl and was on top of the world. i didnt brag about it but i didnt mind letting anyone who criticised me for leaving my job to play poker know how well i was doing. but then in may i went through a horror stretch from which i have not recovered psychologically. i used to love playing, but now i make any excuse i can to avoid it. its not like im always losing, but i get way too affected by a few bad beats and im scared of the feeling of losing. its a helpless feeling and i think it primarily stems from a fear of feeling like [censored] from a loss and also a totally illogical fear of going broke (i am way overrolled for 2/4nl and i still live at home rent free). also, i think its the same for me that i feel by avoiding playing i dont have to feel like a failure, esp when i discuss my job with other people.

i honestly believe that this thread may be the most useful one i have ever read. if nothing else it has shown that there are others like me. i am currently in the process of going through and trying every technique suggested. im already feeling better about a few things so far. i will be sure to post anything that i think might be useful to others who are in a similar predicament.

thanks heaps to OP and everyone who posted useful replies. i hope we can all be crushing with confidence again soon [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[_Towelie_]

[ QUOTE ]
i am seriously amazed at how accurately OP's current approach to poker reflects my own.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, it's really uncanny. Especially OP's third post, where he discusses the need to confirm to others that he is indeed successful, but never quite lives up to his own standards for success. Even though I currently 'do better' than most of my friends, this description fits me perfectly.

I also have the same irrational fear of going broke. I grind STTs for a living and currently have 200 BIs in my BR. my fear of going broke is so intense that I don't think i could operate on anything less than 200 BIs. How retarded is that?