Micro Stakes Limit Holdem (almost dissertation)

[OrigamiSensei]

Interestingly enough I'm slowplaying less and less in the new style game. Why? Because if people are going to be raising me with air I want to be leading and letting them raise me. One play I am experimenting with more is what I think is called the screwplay. Bet out the big hand on the flop, let them raise, smooth call and then check-raise on the turn. Or just lead the turn because they may raise again and then you can 3-bet. Deception is important, but the deception is that you could be semi-bluffing or betting a big hand. That's a factor in hyper-aggressive games. Slowplaying works better in NL where you can adopt a counter-puncher style and you have the opportunity to play for your opponent's entire stack when they over-reach and also to minimize your expenditure when you miss since your opponent can't afford to simply auto-bet for fear of getting slammed. In limit slowplaying often simply results in giving up bets.

Blind play has indeed become more important and one I don't think that we in the micros have in general adjusted to very well. At least I know I haven't. My blind play is pitiful. General question to the forum: does the stox book have useful info on blind play?

[shuinthehouse]

[ QUOTE ]
shuinthehouse,

another testimonial to justify that I am not crazy and seeing shadows (no pun to shadow indended [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Break-even or down over 30K with your stats (and I hope skillz) - isn't that a waste of time and effort? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think my stats are solid, I compare them often to other experienced posters when they post stats. However, I am aware one can be playing/raising the wrong cards and/or at the wrong time so stats aren't everything. But reading and analyzing hand posts I see that I generally think the way experienced posters do, so I think my skills are at least OK. 30k is a small sample, I know it's possible I'm running hot and am really a -2BB/100 long term loser, and I may be running cold and really be a 2BB/100 long term winner. An experienced poster, I think Bravos, recently posted a chart where he has a 30k stretch of close to break-even or negative.

As far as 'waste of time and effort', like a lot of other micro-ers I don't play for money, but for the mental challenge. As someone once said in a different thread, it's a hobby that doesn't cost me anything. I play a lot of volleyball, and work to get better because it's a challenge and more fun the better I get. It doesn't bother me there is no financial reward. I would like to move up in limits for the challenge of playing with and beating better players, same reason I like to move up in volleyball levels.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't cap AK (are you nuts??? cap for value, because ...)

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW you don't have value here if you raise UTG and I 3bet you...

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 0: 42.145% 28.18% 13.97% 1839000 911552.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 57.855% 43.89% 13.97% 2864234 911552.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }

[/ QUOTE ]

(if we add 99, KQs, AQo, and AJs then you are a small favorite but being OOP negates it somewhat)

[Christian_Peters]

The live game is sooooo much more loose/passive. SSHE still applies to these games perfectly, at least for now. I imagine in about a few years, the 3/6 games at most B&M's will be TAG.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
The live game is sooooo much more loose/passive. SSHE still applies to these games perfectly, at least for now. I imagine in about a few years, the 3/6 games at most B&M's will be TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

3/6 B&M's will never be overrun by good TAGs because good TAGs will have better things to do.

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
The live game is sooooo much more loose/passive. SSHE still applies to these games perfectly, at least for now. I imagine in about a few years, the 3/6 games at most B&M's will be TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

k i'll give you 3:1. Let's do $30.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The live game is sooooo much more loose/passive. SSHE still applies to these games perfectly, at least for now. I imagine in about a few years, the 3/6 games at most B&M's will be TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

k i'll give you 3:1. Let's do $30.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, I'll give you 10:1.

Six words that will prevent this from ever happening in live games: drunks, genetically-inclined gambl00rs and tourists.

Plus, the incentive for many TAG pokerers is that they can (theoretically) sit on their asses in their bathrobes in their own homes/dorms/parents' basements and watch pr0n while they make money by clicking a mouse. Spending 8-hour days in a windowless, stinky room, one-tabling while sitting next to less-than-courteous, less-than-bathed people from...well, I don't KNOW where some of these people come from, or how they get the money to buy in - well, I don't think your average college student is going to want to live in that world just to make $12-18/hour.

Hell, the live 20/40 games aren't TAG in most places, so I'm not sure how you'd figure 3/6 will be.

[OziBattler]

You know, the reason I bumped that my old 2k thread was because I honestly think that too many of you are making adjustments in an attempt to get back on track but are likely making things worse for yourself by getting too fancy.

I dont play by the book all the time anymore but I can basically assure you that when I deviate from a standard line I have (what I think is) a clear reason for doing so.

Sure, mix it up but not too much...

I dont know if you watched bravos' video but in it I noticed 2 things
1. he stays calm and relaxed
2. he picks his spots carefully when choosing to play past the flop (I bet if you watch it youll see hands where you would ahve called where he folded)

Bravos, more videoes please!

anyway Remy et al, I feel your pain cos Ive been there, I was really frustrated mid last year but then I started making more flop and turn folds which meant least bad river calls and my winrate has gotten much better. It took work and discipline at the tables. I really dont know if you are a a spewmonkey or not but you seem to confess that you are so Ill believe that.

Its good you admit youve got a problem so now to fix it. I think you should sign up for session reviews and do like 3-4 of them and see what people find....cos honestly, you are going to have to sink or swim.

gogogo

ozi

[00Snitch]

OK, so I read most of this and got what I expected.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I've never really had the wonder of playing on pre-frist tables becuase of my timezone. I'm 14hrs infront of EST - you do the math and tell me what type of players are playing at that time of day. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

So I guess I got used to 20/10 tables from an early poker age. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I play at about 22/12 and steal around 40%. WTSD around 31%. I don't win much. But it's just in the green. Rakeback and bonus keeps me happy.

Some random thoughts:

- Steal lots and earlier. Do it with those hands you loathe to play because they are dominated. QT/KT and all that stuff. Newsflash, you arn't dominated if no one is in the pot. A5/6/7/8s+ from MP1. Middish PPs from MP1.

- Isolate more. With one limper raise all your stuff like ATo+, KJo+, 88+ if you're brave, 99+ otherwise. JTs+ if you are brave. These hands arn't dominated by a single limper.

- Re-steal more. 3-bet a LP raise with AJo+, 99+. You already know that they are stealing earlier and lighter.

- 3-bet from the sb against a steal.

- check-raise the flop in defense from the BB.

[Befolder]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, so I read most of this and got what I expected.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I've never really had the wonder of playing on pre-frist tables becuase of my timezone. I'm 14hrs infront of EST - you do the math and tell me what type of players are playing at that time of day. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

So I guess I got used to 20/10 tables from an early poker age. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I play at about 22/12 and steal around 40%. WTSD around 31%. I don't win much. But it's just in the green. Rakeback and bonus keeps me happy.

Some random thoughts:

- Steal lots and earlier. Do it with those hands you loathe to play because they are dominated. QT/KT and all that stuff. Newsflash, you arn't dominated if no one is in the pot. A5/6/7/8s+ from MP1. Middish PPs from MP1.

- Isolate more. With one limper raise all your stuff like ATo+, KJo+, 88+ if you're brave, 99+ otherwise. JTs+ if you are brave. These hands arn't dominated by a single limper.

- Re-steal more. 3-bet a LP raise with AJo+, 99+. You already know that they are stealing earlier and lighter.

- 3-bet from the sb against a steal.

- check-raise the flop in defense from the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know I'm doing all of that already, just running like crap and making some other mistakes to compound running badly.

Meh, it'll turn around eventually, but I can do better to limit losses until then.