4/8 Live: Checking AA on the flop w/ connected board

[atnels]

4/8 Live. Table is fairly standard for a live game. UTG+1, UTG+2, and MP2 I have played with quite a bit and know that I'm pretty decent. They are all OK post flop, but in general too loose - probably playing 40-50% of their hands. UTG is either very tight or running cold. I've been playing with him for ~3 hours and he has played maybe 4 hands. CO is unknown who just sat down, so no read.

Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop, 10 Players: <font color="red"> UTG Raises,</font> UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, <font color="red"> Hero Reraises,</font> Blinds fold, <font color="red">UTG Caps, </font>, All Call

Umm... okay. Given UTG's cap and my read, I am 99% certain he has QQ+, and I would be more inclined to put him on KK. UTG+1, UTG+2, and MP2 could have just about anything: offsuit broadway, smaller suited connectors, etc. Again, no read on CO.

Flop (24 SB), 6 Players: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

All check to Hero.... Note: I have seen all three players (save UTG &amp; CO) c/r and get fairly tricky post flop, so the checks alone mean nothing.

If I bet, and nobody check raises, everyone can call with just about anything. Obviously, if UTG+1 has A6 I'd love for him to call, but lots of other holdings will have gotten a giant piece of this flop. Even if I bet and UTG c/r, that will be just fine with the draws.

I seem to remember HEfAP advocating a check in this situation, but I can't see the logic in that. Would anyone else check this, and if so, your reasoning?

[James.]

no check. i would bet hoping UTG will checkraise. if we had reason to believe the bet would come from our immediate right the play would have more merit. since we don't, bet and certainly consider 3betting depending on who checkraises(sometimes it might be best to wait and raise the turn if c/r on the flop).

[BigBadBabar]

omg why would we ever check this?

[Man of Means]

Throw the bet out there

[Yossarian147]

If HEfAP said that, it wasn't referring to the type of game you're in. When you can't protect your hand, bet for value. Letting someone see the turn for free here is terrible.

[atnels]

Sure enough, HEfAP, page 171 in the section 'When Pots get Big'

"Suppose you have aces on the button, many players are in, and the pot is very large. The flop comes: Jc 8s 7d. Everyone checks to you. The correct play is to also check! Then when a bet comes on 4th street you raise. If someone is going to draw out on you on the turn you can't prevent it anyway. By playing the hand this way you'll be able to stop him from drawing out in the end."

The reason I bring this up is that I vaguely recalled this during the hand - but I still don't understand the reasoning 100%. Anyone who has HEfAP check this out.

[atnels]

No, it was referring to exactly this type of game.

My gut said to bet this, which is why I am trying to get input on the conflicting advice.

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure enough, HEfAP, page 171 in the section 'When Pots get Big'
"If someone is going to draw out on you on the turn you can't prevent it anyway."


[/ QUOTE ]

I remember this too but I think it's fairly bad general advice and only for specific situations. i.e. the likely turn bettor is to our right. In this hand he's UTG and hero is button.

You simply must bet this flop. Here we want to bet to get out any hand that is going to pick up a draw on the turn but would fold now. Giving a free card may allow hopeless hands to realize their equity...or if we bet and get called by A6o that's still a better result than checking.

[BigBadBabar]

atnels, you probably should read several other books before you read hefpap. also hefpap might apply to 50/100 live but not even a little bit 4/8 live. try winning low limit holdem and small stakes holdem for starters.

[atnels]

Appreciate the input. I read Ed Miller years ago and strongly credit it for making me into a winning 5/10 online player. Unfortuantely, I no longer had time to play online well before the walls came down in the US, but recently moved to an area where live poker is an option. I find time to play live occasionally and 4/8 is the highest limit offered. I started posting again here in the last few weeks in an attempt to get my game back into shape.

I don't claim to have anywhere near the knowledge that other posters do around here, which is why I asked the question I did in this post. If the consensus is that the advice provided in HEfAP doesn't apply to this level, that is totally fine. I just wasn't aware of that sentiment - again, hence the question.

In fact, I can recall HEfAP being cited by posters I respected back in the micros years ago. If anything, I would venture that those games (Party, Paradise 1/2 circa 2004) were much softer than a 4/8 live - or at least the 4/8 players I sit with.