K3s flop

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

15/30, 3-handed game. The Button is a crazy LAG/maniac who probably plays 50-60% of his hands in a 6-handed game and upwards of 80% on the button. The Button is very capable of spewing lots of chips off with worse hands, including making bluff raises and continuation bets at a rate way higher than is optimal; we have tangled a lot and I've been getting the better of him and rather than adjusting he seems to be tilting slightly and becoming even more aggressive. He likely views me as a little tricky/bluffy/crazy myself and I think that's why I'm getting on his nerves.

Anyway he raises, I call from the SB with Kc3c, a decent player who is aware of Button's shenanigans calls from the BB.

Flop is Ac 6d 4c, giving me the nut flush draw. What is the best action here? Bet-call, check-call, check-raise all seem viable. Note that I might well want to showdown my king-high on this board provided that BB does not get involved in the hand.

BTW, critiques of the preflop play are welcome, but I think calling is a lot better than folding and a little better than raising.

[Entity]

I'd like to hear why you think calling is a lot better than folding here. If your kicker were a bit more likely to withstand some pressure that BB can easily apply in these sort of spots then when you pair up (that is to say, pair your kicker) then I'd be more apt to agree, but I'd just go ahead and muck this one because I think that 3betting is just a bit too thin equity wise (I do think it's better than calling) and calling allows the BB to play a bit too wide of a range. While I'm aware that 3betting won't fold KQo or KJs, etc, in BB's hands if he's really adjusting, I think he'll fold enough hands that you want him to fold in this spot, like T9o, etc, and then you can basically try to fade the variance postflop.

That said, I'd go ahead and lead the flop -- I think it often will have the same effect as a checkraise because BB has to know that it's getting raised super often and your flop lead actually looks fairly strong here, so he basically will be playing the same range vs a flop bet as a flop checkraise, but it both preserves your implied odds if you realize you need to hit, and costs you "less" (assuming button doesn't 3bet this flop with T9o NPND type hands) when you are behind. It also helps define your opponent's range of hands a bit better (not necessarily the maniac, but I'm not as concerned about him) and can give you a lot more flexibility for the turn.

So yeah, I fold preflop if I don't 3bet. I think I get why you called, but I'd like to hear a bit more about it.

Rob

[geormiet]

For any semi decent hand reader whatever you do will be suspect. There aren't many Ax hands you're gonna cold call in the sb with to begin with, so it will be hard to represent an Ace.

I like a check call on the flop. Maybe a semibluffing opportunity will present itself on the turn, maybe you'll get to showdown w/ the best hand, maybe you'll see action that lets you know semibluffing was a bad idea.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

Rob,

I don't think I can fold preflop. My hand is at least even-money against two random hands, which is essentially what I'm up against here, and I've already invested 2/3 of a SB toward seeing a flop. Ordinarily, I would be facing negative implied odds with this hand postflop in spite of its suitedness, but the Button plays so poorly here that I'm not really sure if that's the case. I want to play pots with him.

So it's a question of calling versus raising. The initiative is worth very little against this particular Button, especially as he's seen me isolate him very light. In fact, I'd slightly rather play without the initiative, because I think letting him feign strength makes him more apt to overplay his hands. A 3-bet also opens me up to a 4-bet, and I'm not getting the best of it if a fourth bet goes in before the flop.

Whether these advantages are worth making it cheaper for the BB to see the flop I'm not certain. It would obv. suck if he calls with like K6o or something that he'd otherwise have folded. On the other hand, I do sort of like the relative position that a call sets me up with after the flop.

[Leader]

I'd c/c here. I don't think any of the other plays get you much, but they will probably make your hand more readable.

RE pf:

What else are you calling here? What are you doing with something like K5o, Q6s, 75s, 98o?

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
For any semi decent hand reader whatever you do will be suspect. There aren't many Ax hands you're gonna cold call in the sb with to begin with, so it will be hard to represent an Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this peculiar circumstance, I actually like cold-calling with Ax a certain percentage of the time, because I think the deception is really worth something. Certainly if an ace flops but also to some extent if the board blanks off -- he's more likely to put me on a drawing hand than something with showdown potential and therefore more likely to continue firing bullets into the pot unimproved.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd c/c here. I don't think any of the other plays get you much, but they will probably make your hand more readable.

RE pf:

What else are you calling here? What are you doing with something like K5o, Q6s, 75s, 98o?

[/ QUOTE ]

K5o - fold. I'd start to play my hand beginning at about K7o.
Q6s - might call depending on how the game dynamic is going.
75s - call
98o - call or occasionally raise

[geormiet]

Is this a 2/3 blind structure? Because otherwise i am folding most of those hands against that type of player. Its his random hand vs. your random hand, only he has position and folds less often.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a 2/3 blind structure? Because otherwise i am folding most of those hands against that type of player. Its his random hand vs. your random hand, only he has position and folds less often.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 15/30 so yep it's a 2/3 blind structure.

[Entity]

Nate,

I just realized it's a 2/3 structure. You can ignore all of my post about preflop now, but I think it's damned close between all 3 options to be honest. At the time I thought folding > 3betting > calling, but now I think they're all roughly equal -- I still don't agree with your comment that folding is by far worse than calling.

Rob