So I almost stack off with second pair... [50nl]

[Panthro]

noooooo, check the turn. Getting c/r'd off a backdoor FD sucks.

Oh, and PF is marginal unless you're running the table over or you have some incredible reads.

[cuQa]

oh god, pls show more strength with a draw if you choose to bet.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
-If villain has a draw, hero protects his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he decides to call the turn bet, how do we know if he has a king or a draw?
If we miss, and he decides to bluff his whiffed draw we have to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
-There are some better hands that villain will fold to a turn bet, like A9 for example.

[/ QUOTE ]
Some villains will, others wont. We dont know because we are playing an unknown.

[ QUOTE ]
-If villain sucks and will call with a hand like A8, hero gets value.

[/ QUOTE ]
Some villains will, others wont. We dont know because we are playing an unknown.

[ QUOTE ]
-If villain has a king, hero can usually get to showdown by betting the turn and checking the river. This line seems much better than checking and facing a tough decision when villain leads the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is not a tough descision. If we check turn our plan is to fold river UI.

[ QUOTE ]
-If hero spikes a heart on the river, he's very happy to have built a bigger pot on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
But 70% of the time hero's face will look like this [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
-The only time betting the turn sucks is when villain check-raises, and even then, hero often has implied odds to call the raise. Still, the more aggro and tricky a villain is, the more likely I am to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
We would only have implied odds if it is a minraise.

[Atlanta Andrew]

Renaissance,

Don't you think villain is MUCH more likely to bluff a missed draw when we check the turn, rather than when we double barrel? That's why I think checking could put us in a tough spot on the river.

Also, regarding the implied odds, did you notice the stack sizes? As it turns out villain c/r this hand 2/3 the pot to $17, and still has $40 behind after the raise.

-Andrew

[tiger_hall]

maybe seeing a free card here is better... all depends what reads on villain and how strong you consider them to be..

[Abramovic]

Fold to that raise.

[yeesh]

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.25

ummm...I'm guessing you have no reads on BB since you didn't post any, in which case you should be folding this garbage preflop.
As played, I probably check turn with no read.

[cuQa]

btw, I like to bet turn here much more then c/b.

the thing I would change is I would bet 3/4 flop, 3/4 turn.

Upsides of a bet:
- You can win the pot right here. Even some better hands fold
- You get value out of straight draws
- if you improve it's likely that you get another bigger call cause he doesnt fear the flush

Downsides of a bet:
- You could get c/r giving you bad odds most of the time (but I think you get c/r here rarely cos a set would have probably raised flop)
- If you catch your flush villain could fold to a riverbet


Upsides of c/b:
- a freecard
- you could win a big pot with little investment cos villain doesnt believe you the flush (but I think this will happen pretty rarely)

Downsides of c/b:
- Better marginal hands could win the pot UI what would have folded turn against a bet
- Pot is small and it will be hard for you to stack him
- worse hands could bluff you out on the river


----------

I like a bet more cos villain will often fold and you still have great odds against a villain who just calls the turn..

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you think villain is MUCH more likely to bluff a missed draw when we check the turn, rather than when we double barrel? That's why I think checking could put us in a tough spot on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, I dont think folding 2ndPNK to any significant bet on the river is hard at all. And I'm a callstation. I dont care if I fold the best hand here. I fold the best hand all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, regarding the implied odds, did you notice the stack sizes? As it turns out villain c/r this hand 2/3 the pot to $17, and still has $40 behind after the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, our implied odds are good, and I'd call 12 more for the chance to stack villain. But if villain has a hand he is ready to stack off with (as it seems he does), then checking turn behind is an infinitely better play. Betting turn is only good if villains range is heavily weighted toward straight draws (note that some percentage of the time villain will show up with a bigger fdraw and stack us as well, not a big deal but something to consider). Also the 9h and Kh are dirty outs, as they might make a full house - not unlikely given the action so far.

[crovax4444]

PF is so standard. It's suited, your in position, and it's awesome if you can play post

One thing that a bet does that people haven't mentioned is that it makes villain play more straight forward, which lets us know whether we're ahead of behind. And yes, that is a small turn bet, $6.50 looks much better.

I still c/c it down and fold UI on the river, I don't like this move against an unknown

Crovax