Chimpanzee Fight Question From El Diablo

[Heir_Aparent]

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Most NFL tackles can squat or bench press over 700 lb. some tight ends can do this.

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wtf??? squat maybe. bench no.

name me one tight end in the NFL even close to 700lb bench and ill shave my head like hellmuth. do u have any idea how huge a 700lb bench is? thats a good lift for top powerlifters

[Cooker]

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Sorry to derail the thread, but, as a boxing fan and more recently a mixed martial arts fan, a question I have been pondering is whether an average boxer, say ranked 50 in the world, could beat the top MMA striker in a similar weight class if they had to play by boxing rules.

I know Fedor could beat any boxer if they played by MMA rules, but I think an average boxer could beat Fedor if they played by boxing rules.

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Of course the boxer would win at boxing. There is more money in boxing. If any MMA fighter could compete at boxing he would be a boxer. Unless you really think they aren't in it for the money.

[Hoi Polloi]

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There was a man vs. beast special on TV a few years ago.

One contest was a tug-of-war between a sumo wrestler and an orangutan. The sumo wrestler weighed nearly twice as much as the orangutan. The orangutan won.

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Yes, but did the sumo know it was a tug-of-war to the death?

[Hoi Polloi]

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I already answered the question. Aside from a well placed eye gouge from the human, the chimp is the DEAD NUTS if he feels he is fighting to the death. Besides being strong enough to rip the guys head completely off, there is the fact that his REACH is twice that of the man and that he has hands that can GRIP on the ends of his LEGS.

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I agree that the chimp is the nuts.

The problem here will always be a certain vagueness in defining the contest. What does "knowing it is in a fight to the death" mean to a chimp that in the wild would, during the course of a fight, always be making EV determinations vis-a-vis fight or flight. If the contest is to take place in the octagon, then the chimp would need some conditioning to that venue and training around the fight to the death idea. How far does that training go?

In the wild, how does the UFC dude convince the chimp it's in a fight to the death? Does continually threatening its harem do the trick? In a sense this is disadvantageous to the UFC dude as he must accomplish two tasks: 1) convince chimp that the only solution is death; and 2) kill the chimp. Achieving #2 would be easier without achieving #1.

In either case, in my view, if the chimp believes the only solution is to kill the UFC dude, he will have little trouble achieving that objective due to strength and flexibility.

[Hoi Polloi]

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"Can't I fight human-style? By slowly poisoning his environment?"

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Or the chimp could fight human-style

[Beavis68]

A full grown male would slaughter anybody. Even with "death blows" the guy would have to get lucky. Chimps are about 3x stronger than people.

[steamboatin]

I hope you guys are better at poker than picking winners in death matches.

[ChicagoRy]

This is like the Deon Sanders thread "Two guys can tackle Deon, one guys pushes him towards the sideline while the other guy tackles him."

[mpethybridge]

You all have been talking about competitive martial arts. No one has said anything about the variants that are designed to be lethal.

Back in the military, we had a nice sentry-killing move. Basically, you went for a modified chokehold. But instead of going for a choke, you used your forearm to strike the throat (hopefully crushing the trachea, but not necessary), using the momentum of the strike of your forearm to pull the guy backward. Then you lever your shoulder into the base of the skull, and jump backward into a bellyflop. The force of the landing breaks his neck just at the base of the skull. (We actually used this in conjunction with a knife to the kidney, but the knife is clearly verboten in man v. chimp scenario). Properly executed, the sentry's neck pops about a third to half a second from when you first go for the throat strike. There are physiological differences between a chimp and a person that might make this problematic, and this move was designed as a surprise attack, but using some variant of it would likely factor into an optimum lethal attack on a chimp.

Obviously the big problem is getting into position.

I don't know what this ultimate fighting is, and I don't know the capabilities of those fighters, but in a fight to the death with a chimp my money would be on your average delta trooper/SEAL-type all day long. Maybe even your average Ranger, too, although they tend to be less thoroughly trained in hand to hand combat than the spec ops types mentioned above.

That said, the guy who was my hand to hand combat instructor kills your average chimp in about two and a half seconds, tops.

This sort of fearlessness coupled with the right training in lethal hand to hand combat would be insurmountable for the poor dead chimp.

I believe that your competitive martial artist would first have to train extensively in lethal techniques; having done so, and assuming he had or could develop roughly the same sort of ruthlessness that elite military personnel develop, then there's no reason he couldn't perform at least as well as elite military personnel against the chimp.

By the way, for those of you who have been suggesting that more than one person might stand a better chance against the chimp than would one, I believe this is probably incorrect. Any small group of people, unless they are perfectly trained to work together against a single opponent, are at a marked disadvantage in lethal hand to hand combat against the one person. The single person has the advantages of superior coordination of movement, speed and maneuverability. This may not hold true for a single chimp, though, who may not realize he has those advantages, and therefore might not employ them to best advantage.

For those of you who picked the chimp, I suggest 11 weeks in Ranger school. While there, try to find the instructor who couldn't take the chimp.

[RoyalStraight]

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You all have been talking about competitive martial arts. No one has said anything about the variants that are designed to be lethal.

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The majority of techniques taught at any MMA-related school are lethal, if that is your goal. Any BJJ choke is lethal if applied long enough, and all striking disciplines are lethal if you KO your opponent and keep hitting, obviously. Even holds like armbars and heel-hooks are dangerous, considering if applied and not released until the maximum damage is done, whichever appendage that was caught is now useless, and the victim is incapacitated or close to it. Also, as you stated, the techniques you describe are stealth-type techniques, which aren't useful if your opponent knows you are about to attack him. My point is you don't have to be trained specifically to kill, and in most MMA techniques the "lethal variant" is simply not letting go of your hold. Any fully-trained well-rounded MMA fighter would beat a military trained attacker with ease, in most case, given the fact they are trained in takedown defense, striking offense/defense, submission offense/defense, etc.

All that said, the chimp is the nuts, as many already have stated. All the techniques in the world would be useless against an enraged chimp that has the raw power to critically injure you with even a glancing blow. Trying to apply any sort of submission on a struggling chimp would be impossible.