Contributing to the Two Plus Two Internet Magazine

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

Both Sklansky's and Miller's books have made holdem games harder to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're assuming too much. Ed's SSHE book has sold well for a poker book. But, how many of those buyers do you think have (1) read the book thoroughly, (2) apply the information properly, and (3) are actually in your game?

The vast majority of poker players have never seriously studied the game. Many who do study still lose.

I think history shows that if you put information out there the much more likely impact is that it draws new players into the game. That's good for winning players.

[Phil153]

Quoting Ray Zee's foreword in Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players, by Sklansky and Malmuth:

[ QUOTE ]
The book you are holding, written by David Sklansky and
Mason Malmuth, has had far-reaching effects on the poker world.
Simply put, since the original edition of this book, hold 'em has
become, on average, a much tougher game to beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyway this isn't the place for this debate, and I don't wish to discourage articles for your magazine. But I caution those who want to write detailed, little known information about correct play (as opposed to articles about aspects of correct play, or discussion of specific hands), that it will affect the games, particularly PLO8.

PLO8 is unique in that it currently contains huge numbers of awful players with no clue how to play, and is the most profitable game at comparable stakes. It's also the game with the least published information. I don't think that's a coincidence, especially given that less skill is required for PLO8 than hold'em.

Limit O8 is a more complex game with a different skill set and a few articles are unlikely to make a difference.

That's not to say that I ever hold back with advice (I don't), but having a published reference guide for new players as opposed to an in forum discussion are two very different things.

[JMAnon]

[ QUOTE ]
PLO8 is unique in that it currently contains huge numbers of awful players with no clue how to play, and is the most profitable game at comparable stakes. It's also the game with the least published information. I don't think that's a coincidence, especially given that less skill is required for PLO8 than hold'em.
. . .
That's not to say that I ever hold back with advice (I don't), but having a published reference guide for new players as opposed to an in forum discussion are two very different things.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this entirely, FWIW. PLO8 is simple relative to NLHE. The number of totally clueless suckers playing PLO8 at the highest limits online is amazing.

[StrikeR300]

My Thoughts:
-Books/information in my opinon have done way more good for the poker world, than bad.

-People don't bust as fast with some knowledge, & many times they get short term false hopes that keeps them coming back (even after they know they're losers).

-Many people simply do not have the emotional or mental facits to play the game, no matter how much knowledge they have.

-Many people gather just a little bit of information (i.e. PF play) & never move on after that. In LHE, that'd probally make a game tougher. In PLO8, this could be a huge leak.

-Many intangibles can not be taught extremely well: Adjusting to other players, hand reading, etc.

[thehun69]

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyway this isn't the place for this debate

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that a discussion SHOULD be made on this point because it is a very good point to discuss. At the end of the day why are we all here? Why do we come to this board? Ultimately, it is to learn more about this game through discussion and learning through other people's experiences. My game has elevated tremendously since I first started and I would have to credit it both to experience and coming to these boards as well.



[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're assuming too much. Ed's SSHE book has sold well for a poker book. But, how many of those buyers do you think have (1) read the book thoroughly, (2) apply the information properly, and (3) are actually in your game?

The vast majority of poker players have never seriously studied the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting point. I have read Ed's book and that was probably one of THE best poker investments (as far as books, I really have no interest for any of the software) I have ever made. My game and my profitability are EONS away from where I was before I read it. But, the thing is, I read that book at least..well, I'm up at my 6th reading now. I review it constantly and study it thoroughly and through that my game has changed.

LONG STORY SHORT: I PUT IN THE TIME....and that what this whole discussion boils down to. I put in the time to go through the boards to become better at plo8, I put in the time to become better at small stakes hold em. I don't think one should be concerned about putting good info out there about the game and having the profitability go to the craphole. The game will change through the players that put in the time and ultimately most will not. Yes, there may be a few players that will become better by publishing an article, but at the end of the day, that will be a small percentage compared to the other donks that are out there that will not put in the time and thus remain donks.

Maybe an idea for an upcoming article should be titled "TO SHARE OR NOT TO SHARE, THAT IS THE QUESTION", not necessarily related simply to plo8, but to all forms of poker, and poker strategy.