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#21
05-08-2006, 02:53 AM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
[ QUOTE ]
Yea but Harry D. went all in first. Josh didn't give him credit. It's not like all this occured before the flop. Harry raised ((I think) pre- flop and then went all-in with the better hand 1st on the flop. Josh called w/ the draw and sucked out. I know Harry raised somewhere because that kid who was 21 dropped out. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, I can't be sure as I haven't seen this tournament in about a year. From what I remember Josh raised big preflop with 9hTh and Harry and another player called the flop came something like AQT with two hearts. Harry checked and Josh bet out 400k, a big bet at the time, pretty much pot commiting himself, the other player folded and Harry moved all in. Now like I said, I may be wrong here but this is how I remember it vaguely but I have not seen this tournament in a while. Regardless, if this is indeed how it played out I can understand Josh's frustration, first Josh raised preflop and then he bet big into the flop and Josh could easily have a hand like AK, AQ or AT....he could also have a hand like the one he did...but regardless, Harry is behind the hands mentioned and is a small/decent size favorite against a flush draw but still has to dodge cards if Josh has the draw. By check-raising with AJ it was like Harry didnt even consider Josh having him beat and I think thats what frustrated Josh since he bet big preflop and flop and Harry should have given him credit for a good hand in Josh's opinion. 
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#25
05-08-2006, 03:03 PM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
[ QUOTE ]
I definitely don't know Josh personally but I believe ESPN made him look a lot worse than he was. You hear a lot of top pros on shows like the circuit or interviews say that on TV they can portray you however they want and a lot of the time they said "Just look how they showed Josh in the 2004 wsop." For example I believe E-dog said this specifically on the circuit. He is friends with him so he may be a little biased but I don't think Josh was that bad. I can see why he was frustrated when Harry D. made the ace jack play because Josh represented a really big hand and he felt Harry overplayed his hand, almost giving Josh no credit, Josh could have easily had a bigger ace or more the way he played it. Against David Williams I think he was right too, David had 1.5m and he called .5 with 55. He got a great flop but what was he going to do if he didnt hit a 5? Is he going to be able to call a big bet on a flop with overcards or something? I can see why Josh was frustrated here too. Lastly, in the last hand vs Raymer when he said that to David, he said he was just trying to pump up David and he apologized after too. I can understand after losing so many coinflips and getting knocked out of the biggest tournament of the year I would be a little upset too. Regardless, I'm not trying to defend the guy or any of his actions, instead I'm just saying that I can understand his frustration and the reason why it looked like he was an [censored] but I don't think he really is. If you see him on other tournaments hes not bad or even in the same tournament for example you could look at the hand where he had T8 and busted the guy with three fives. He didn't taunt him at all and you could tell he felt sorry about it. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that editing can show a player in different lights. Look at how ESPN portrayed Tiffany Williamson. I was watching one of the episodes last night (I think it was ep 7) and she put a million into the pot with an AQ against a KK (unclear if it was a raise or a call because they didn't show that part) and hit an A. The comment from Chad was less than flattering but in the same episode he said Matusow was playing "big stack poker" when he made a large overbet. Obviously this was just one hand but they seemed to be setting her up as a villian for the next few episodes.
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#27
05-08-2006, 04:45 PM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
[ QUOTE ]
Arieh also berated someone for going all-in with pocket jacks against his AK. Pretty silly. [/ QUOTE ] Don't remember this, when was it and against who? Are you sure you're not confusing this when David Willaims put 1/3 his stack in preflop with 55?
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#28
05-08-2006, 05:24 PM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
you guys are utterly and completely brain-dead. In the 3 comments that made Josh look like a prick, he was completely justified in making his statements.
Hand #1. I don't know the exact details of this hands so I can't comment on it fully, but Matt Dean call a 3rd raise all-in for 1M with JJ when there was easily room for play. Hand #2. Arieh raises (it looks like utg) with either T9hh or T8hh, Murphy calls in MP with 44 and Harry calls in SB/BB with AJo Flop comes AKQ (2 hearts), Harry checks, Josh bets 400k (roughly pot IIRC), Murphy folds, Harry C/r to roughly 1.1M to put Arieh all-in and Arieh can never fold his hand even if Harry flips his hand over and shows QQ. I would have gone ballistic at Harry D (an experienced player) for making such an idiotic play with so much at stake. Hand #3. FT with Williams/Arieh 7 handed, Blinds 25k/50k ante (?). Williams with 1.5M raises open-raises to 150K in mid position. Arieh re-raises to 500k with AKs. Williams CALLS 1/3 of his stack and CHECKS IN THE DARK. Seriously, the worst play I've ever seen at the final table barring tilt! He's got extremely lucky that josh hits his ace when williams also hits his 5 on the flop. Seriously can you imagine giving a player like Josh 4 cards to hit his hand? Now it's been stated by Williams, that Arieh was an aggressive player and he might just push in no matter what came on the flop and Williams would call if there was no AKQ on the flop, but that's another story altogether. Seriously, everyone talks about his prickish comments but no one recognizes the fact that Arieh and Raymer were basically in command of that final table and if a couple key coinflips/hands goes his way, Arieh wins the 2004 ME.
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#29
05-08-2006, 05:37 PM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
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Seriously, everyone talks about his prickish comments but no one recognizes the fact that Arieh and Raymer were basically in command of that final table and if a couple key coinflips/hands goes his way, Arieh wins the 2004 ME. [/ QUOTE ] Even donks are only a few key coinflips/hands away from winning the ME if they are at the final table.
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#30
05-08-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: What did Arieh say to Williams...
It is truly amazing to me how many people on these boards trash player's personalities having spent a grand total of zero time with them. I agree that some of the things that Josh said were out of line, but he apologized and we should all move on with our lives.
I spent about four hours playing Chinese Poker with Josh in Aruba later on in 2004 and I have to say he was more fun to play with than anyone else I played with that weekend. He introduced himself to me first (didn't big time me) and later when we played 60-120 together he was a blast to play with. Lay off the guy and get to know him before you say things like "ESPN had nothing to do with it, Josh is just a total prick."
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