M isnt perfect to represent the stacks.

[valenzuela]

At first we had Big blinds. But the problem with BBs is that they dont take antes into account, then harrington came with M so that we cant take antes into account, however the M doesnt perfectly represent the situation of youre stack, here is why.
Suppose we are playing on a 9 handed table, the average stack is 180000.
The blinds are 5000/10000.
The blinds are 2600/5200 with an ante of 800.
The latter situation has much more play than the first.In the first situation you have to raise 300000 preflop, in the second situation a 17000ish bet should do.

[MJBuddy]

Well that's not entirely true....see my topic about standard preflop raising requirements.


M, for what it's used for, represents exactly what it stands to represent - how many rounds one has the ability to fold before busting out. And in turn, this gives us a scale as to how quickly and aggressively we must get involved in pots.

[valenzuela]

My post was more in relation to the " the average stack on the main event at this point is 28 M" kinda posts. The thing is that the M becomes less useful as the stacks become deeper. The M isnt even perfect for all-in/folds situation because bigger antes mean more FE.

[MJBuddy]

Oh, I thought you were challenging the original premise for the M.


Yeah most tourney players completely misconstrue M to mean other things. I'm not entirely aware of the ME structure, but higher blinds = more aggressive pre-flop normally.

[illini43]

I would think lower blinds (2600/5200 a800) in this case would actually mean you should be more aggressive.

Most players would probably view the situation as "I have 30+BB's, so I'm still in good shape and don't need to worry yet." However, even though the blinds are lower relative to BB's per stack, the 'hidden' antes that some players do not add up make stealing blinds and playing more aggressively preflop with the lower blinds and antes more important.

With 18BB's at 5000/10000, most thinking players know they have a good size stack to re-steal or 3-bet preflop. However, it becomes less obvious re-steals are just as important when the blinds are lower and antes are higher.

I think it might be easier to get away with more blind steals and 3bets preflop with the lower blinds because players would still feel they have some chips left even though they would only be able to survive the same # of rounds at the table if there were higher blinds and no antes.

Basically, I'm adding to the discussion the premise that stealing pots preflop might be easier with smaller blinds and antes as opposed to higher blinds.

I think the "M" factor is still very useful, you just need to take it within the context of the blind structure. I personally think more than a few players do not realize the impact of large antes, and thus, do not adjust until the blinds get high and pass up opportunities to steal more pots when the blinds are lower (with the same M avg. stack).

[MJBuddy]

I agree with illini. I was going to extrapolate in my post that I would probably push all the same because I get more FE and it gets so much harder to get that 2 to 1 odds realm that most people look for with calling ATC.

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]

I think the "M" factor is still very useful, you just need to take it within the context of the blind structure

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly

[illini43]

Great post btw.

I never thought about this before, but it makes perfect sense after relatively simple thought. Thank you for bringing this up!