Turn spot

[mustmuck]

I've been trying out Omaha lately, with mixed results. It's been an interesting learning curve. I assume that Button usually has some sort of wrap here? There's a bit less than a PSB to go in ($440 or so). Anybody play it different on the flop?


Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
5 players

Stack sizes:
Button: $646.01
SB: $68.92
Hero: $790.68

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $12</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises $60</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises $204</font>, Button calls, SB calls

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($486, 3 players)
Hero ?

[TheRempel]

Flop play is fine and there's no other way to play it. Button is taking a pretty standard line for JT9x with no pair on the flop so standard would be to c/f the turn unless he gives you a good price. With reads you could argue for c/r or open push if your opponent is prone to overcalling the flop with [censored] like 456x.

[mustmuck]

So you don't think button raises JT9x first time round? Am I to take it you think he would raise it if x paired with the flop?

[TheRempel]

I think the difference between calling and raising for a lot of players is if the x card has paired the flop, yeah.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Based on preflop + flop play, Btn seems pretty passive, so I don't think he'll make a big bet on the turn w/o T9, or he might give you good odds. Of course this means you may let his 654x suck out, but I think it's the best play. Also, SB is AI for ~40% of the pot.

[Sickgambler1]

Tough spot, since you are somewhat deep I thing you should check the turn, fold if he pots or if he gives you a good price if he bets then go along.

[lfairban]

What else could button have but a wrap? If it is a high side wrap, you are now down to 10 outs for a non-nut full, and 3 outs for a non-nut streight if one opponent has a 10.

Play so far is good. I would check, but then I am fairly conservative. If villian pots, it is a close call between call and fold. Call aggressive, fold to passive.

[iggymcfly]

I think this is middle set or even something like 6789 a lot here. Obviously not as often as it's the nut straight, but often enough that I'm not check/folding without a read.

If I feel confident that villian's passive enough to check behind anything but the nuts here, than sure check/fold's fine, but against a typical unknown, I'd bet 1/2 the pot here to keep 777 in and then either call a push or push the river.

[mustmuck]

Well, I did think that a wrap was his most likely holding, followed by a lower set. I didn't really have a read on how aggro he was, but it seemed unlikely that he'd fire light with SB protecting almost half the pot.

Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($12, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $12</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $60</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $204</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB calls all-in $6.92</font>.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($486.92, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $212.76, Sidepot 1: $274.16)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($486.92, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $212.76, Sidepot 1: $274.16)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $243.46</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $243.46 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $486.92


I think it'd be tougher without SB, as check-folding here has to be wrong against reasonable opposition unless we're viewed as tricky.

Villain had 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for a wrap with two back door flushes. What do you think of his flop play?

[GAL]

I hate these spots but because I want to balance my plays and not make my hand transparent to observant opponents I have been tending to take the same line as iggymcfly, that is betting 1/2 pot. Unless we sometimes check here when we're leading with a set and fill up, with a flush draw and hit or a straight draw and hit, I think that checking in these spots when OOP and leading and any of the above scenarios happen leaves us very exploitable.

This hand happened yesterday and got me thinking about this.

Prima Poker skin
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $8</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($35, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $35</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($105, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $52.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $161.35</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero calls all-in $97.5</font>.
Uncalled bets: $11.35 returned to CO.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($405, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $405)


Results:
Final pot: $405

Converter has messed up but Villan had KQJx and hit the heart flush. Without being results orintated I think a C/F here is best vs Villans range which is heavily wieghted towards a wrap in these spots.

I think the play of betting 1/2 pot when the board pairs when holding either a made flush or made straight works better because the Villan can't semi bluff raise and be wrong, ie. if we have the hand we're representing, a FH, he will be drawing dead which isn't the case if he has draws when a straight card hits the board.

Thoughts?