Are we calling down too much?

[TJO]

Yesterday I made this poll which was probably stupid. Since it generated very little interest.

I went to great lenghts to ask a simple question. What if the reason that we're not crushing these microlimit games is not that fold too much but instead that we call down too much?

I really like Ed Miller's classic post but it was written in the golden era of online poker and the game has become tougher. That combined with the opponent denigrating attitude coming from SSHE could lead to trouble.

During last month I've chosen the calldown line with KK 17 times and I have lost the pot 13 times and only won 4 times. I've won 19BB and lost 26BB. The 4 times that I won I chose the calldown line for no good reason (being the weak-tight nit that I am). I know this is really small sample size and I'm being result oriented here. But I challenge you to look your HHs to find a standard calldown hand (AA,KK,QQ) that you actually won, post it here and prove me wrong.

I think that 95% of the time when we choose to call down with a hand like KK we are drawing to two outs or drawing dead. So we're drawing to something like 1.25 outs and we never have the odds to call. An exception here might be against a big bluffer but I haven't found one during my poker career. I have no experience in 6-max games or higher level games like $1/$2 or $2/$4. Maybe you can find more bluffers there.

Also I'd like to know if there's some metagame value in calling down and that's the reason why we always do it. Will opponents start to play differently against us if we start to fold these hands?

I hope this will generate some discussion. I know I should stop trying to come up with something "significant" because I'm not a good poker player and I'm even worse as a writer. So it's like a son trying to teach his father how to f**k.

Finally, does this look awful to you?:

Hand 2

Villain unknown. Hero has played only 15 hands with him. Probably a somewhat tight player.

Ultimate Bet
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25./$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (13.4SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8.7BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds.


Hand 3

Villain is 21/15/2 60 hands

Ultimate Bet
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.05./$0.1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, 4 folds, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 caps</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (13.4SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.7BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero folds.


Hand 4

Villain is totally unknown.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.15/$0.3
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, Hero folds.