|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
Soft live 10/20 E game.
Preflop: I'm UTG with JJ and raise, a solid player UTG+1 3-bets me and a tilting laggy TAG UTG+2 caps. Four other fishy and plain bad players coldcall the cap creating a pot of +/- 28 SB preflop. Flop comes: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check, preflop 3-better checks, preflop capper bets and everyone including me calls (pot 35SB). Turn comes T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I check again, intending to call one or two bets. Any other way to play this? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
Any other way to play this? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. Faster. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players. since you didn't do that bet the turn. you really should be giving more action here based on these players' descriptions as your hand is too good too often. as played you are giving everyone the best and cheapest opportunity possible to draw out when you are ahead.
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players. [/ QUOTE ] How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer? I don't like the idea of putting in a lot of money with just a two outer (it's not like I can fold a 2-outer here on the turn, pot odds are HUGE). And given the preflop action it seems that the probability of someone having AA/KK/QQ/TT is very real. On the other hand I also don't like missing value bets when I could and would get so many callers. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players. [/ QUOTE ] How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer? [/ QUOTE ] well, that depends on the opponents and their pf requirements. you said a laggy tilting guy capped pf, right? and all he has done is c-bet when checked to on the flop. why does he have AA/KK/QQ here all the time? this seems like you're thinking scared. you may be drawing to two outs, but frequently you are not. what range do you put the pf 3bettor on before the flop? what range do you put him on after the flop action? what about the tilty LAG/TAG? surely you aren't seeing him as having only QQ+ here based on his description. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
as what you described regarding UTG+2, i will raise turn to try to shut out UTG+1. the pot is big. i will try best to protect my hand.
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players. [/ QUOTE ] How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer? [/ QUOTE ] well, that depends on the opponents and their pf requirements. you said a laggy tilting guy capped pf, right? and all he has done is c-bet when checked to on the flop. why does he have AA/KK/QQ here all the time? this seems like you're thinking scared. you may be drawing to two outs, but frequently you are not. what range do you put the pf 3bettor on before the flop? what range do you put him on after the flop action? what about the tilty LAG/TAG? surely you aren't seeing him as having only QQ+ here based on his description. [/ QUOTE ] The preflop capper isn't the only thing to worry about, the 3-bet from UTG+2 must also be a very decent hand (something like TT+, AJs,KQs,AQo+). After he called on the flop I'm pretty sure he isn't holding AA/KK and probably also not QQ and JJ, but that information isn't available for me when I have to act on the flop. Also the cold calls from the bad players is something to worry about. This was one of the very few preflop capped pots, and even though they are bad players the calling standards for calling 4 cold are a lot higher than calling a single raise or something like that. That said: hands like 66, 78s, Axs are probably within their range, but someone with AA thinking 'someone has probably hit trips on the flop' is also very possible. But me having the best hand is ofcourse also possible. [ QUOTE ] In general, you would see more benefit than not to make a play for this pot, especially since it's this large. Sure, value betting would be great if you've got passive callers, but with so many bets in, I wouldn't mind taking the pot right now with zero callers.[/qouote] Taking a 7-way capped pot before the river is impossible. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Hielko
Get it out of your head that it's only "possible" that your hand is best at this point.There is a very decent chance that you have the best hand here.Play accordingly.
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
Taking a 7-way capped pot before the river is impossible. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you on this statement, but no where did I mention about everyone folding at all, merely saying that the pot was big enough to take right there without being concerned about squeezing it another few bets. My main point is that you're "worried" about losing value bets but thought the best course of action was to "check/call one or two bets" on the turn, which made little sense. You weren't thinking about protecting your pot. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot
[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer? [/ QUOTE ] As James had mentioned, the best person to answer that question is you. So often, correct play is dictated by what you perceive your opponents to hold and what they're thinking. In general, you would see more benefit than not to make a play for this pot, especially since it's this large. Sure, value betting would be great if you've got passive callers, but with so many bets in, I wouldn't mind taking the pot right now with zero callers. If you run into AA/KK/QQ, so be it, that's poker. However, by not checkraising the flop, imo, you are allowing AQs or AK to catch their overcards cheaply. In some cases, you may even run into a player who thinks like you, and maybe get them to lay down QQ, when they fear you have AA/KK. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|