NBA draft discussion thread

[Clarkmeister]

I think McRoberts will be a servicable pro for a while, which is better than you can expect from a 2nd rounder.

[Bill Murphy]

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I think McRoberts will be a servicable pro for a while, which is better than you can expect from a 2nd rounder.

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Agreed that he's a good pick at 37, and will likely fill his role well. He was an absolute donk for coming out, tho. Prolly cost himself millions of dollars & thousands of minutes of playing time over the next three years.

[Assani Fisher]

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Hey Assani:

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Dan (Louisville): Do you see yourself as a 3 or a 2 in the NBA?

COREY BREWER: Either one. I feel like they're both the same position, you just guard different sized guys.


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[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'd go bump the thread but I forget which one it is.

source: ESPN's draft chat transcript

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haha...just reading through this thread now, but nice find man.




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Ray Allen is a top 20 player in the NBA and has been for virtually his entire career.

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At first I wasn't sure if you meant this literally or not, but you've said it more than once now. Heres 20 guys that I would rather have than Ray Allen on my team if all I cared about was winning for next season:

1. Dirk
2. Duncan
3. Nash
4. Kobe
5. Lebron
6. Arenas
7. Wade
8. McGrady
9. Yao
10. Pierce
11. Bosh
12. D Howard
13. Melo
14. Gasol
15. Brand
16. Boozer
17. Paul
18. D Williams
19. Kidd
20. Garnett

I could name more too.


With that said, I like the trade for Boston because I think they can compete right now in the East. I think more teams should try to take advantage of the weakness of the conference and take some risks for the immediate future.

Oh, but Ray Allen definitely is a "superstar." Its a rather silly debate since its all semantics, but I can't see how anyone couldn't consider him one.

For Seattle, no matter what things are looking up with Durant. But they're putting a lot of weight on Green. If he doesn't turn out good then thats a huge setback, whereas Allen was obviously a sure thing. I will admit that I'm intruiged by the 3 interchangable big wing players at the 2,3 and 4 spots. It'll create a lot of matchup problems when they're on offense for sure. I wonder if Green tested out a lot better than Wright in their personal workouts because Wright seemed like he would've made a lot more sense with that pick.

As is, they could really use a solid defensive center imo. In fact I'd think that should be their top priority in trades/free agency rather than PG even though most people probably disagree.




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I think Portland could've gotten better than that for Randolph.

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I've seen quite a few people say something along these lines. I think we're underrating Channing Frye a bit. Yes its true that he'll only be a 6th man, but most post players don't play the majority of the game particularly if you're trying to keep them healthy for the playoffs. Frye could easily get 25-30 minutes per game even if Oden and Aldridge do turn out to be stars.

Randolph was really out of place in Portland's rebuilding schemes, and his contract was killing them. Steve Francis, for all his shortcomings, will actually contribute some immediately, and his contract which is up in 2 years fits in perfectly with getting them some cap room before they're going to have to resign their young stars.

Things are really looking good in Portland right now. If Darius Miles actually comes around, then they'll be in amazing shape. If not, they're still on the right track.

For NY, I understand the line of thought but since they already have Curry do they really need another no defense/good offensive big man? And are they just totally resigned to forever being in salary cap hell now?



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btw- That Noah pick is really bad. They have like 3 better versions of the same player. I'm not sure who I think they should have picked, but contrary to what Paxon said, I'm not sure what dimension he brings to that team that doesn't already exist.

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Noah instantly becomes Chicago's best passing big man and their best ball handling big man. Chicago lacks guys that can create their own shot, and it didn't look like there was anyone worthy of the #9 pick who could do that(I took this to mean that they didn't think Hawes was worthy of it). That means that they need good teamwork, passing, and role players in order to manufacter offense...Noah gives them that. Noah is the type of player that you can give the ball to in the high post, space the floor, run some cuts, and have a dangerous offense. That is what dimension he adds to their team.




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the Suns recent trend of constantly selling or trading away their 1st round picks for $$$ is really gay.

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Agreed completely.




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I don't like it. JRich is in his prime now, and he may be above average, but he's not an all-star player. By the time this young group of guys hit their prime, JRich could be washed up. The Cats should be collecting young pieces a la the Raptors & Bulls.

This trade is sort of like when MJ picked up Stackhouse for Rip. I think MJ just likes picking up athletic SG who sort of remind him of himself.

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I'm not sure how I feel here. On one hand, I disagree with you about needing all young guys that will hit their primes at the same time...I think its good to have a solid mix of veterans and youth. Plus having a high character(from everything I've heard) guy to work with the younger players can only help.

On the other hand, the way to win in this league is to take chances and hope to get that one or two superstars and then fill in with role players. The Bobcats seem to have too many good prospects that have no shot of being great, and bringing in a good but not great veteran instead of taking a shot on Wright isn't helping.

Also, I don't know why I havn't asked this before, but why exactly are they not trying extremely hard to resign Wallace? They have tons of cap room and he seems like a great fit. What gives?

For Golden State, I'm very intruiged by it. If Wright turns out to be a stud then they can be really really good for a very long time. Ellis, Biedrins, and Wright could be a nice trio there for the future.




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Wouldn't Wright have been #1 overall next year (if he had stayed in)?

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With a great season, he would've been in consideration, but theres a pretty good incoming class(Mayo, Gordon, Beasley, Rose), Batum looks like a stud, and guys like Buddinger and Hibbert should come out. Also don't forget that a year ago Noah was considered a possible #1 overall pick and McRoberts was a top 10 guy.



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how did that trade work out between brandon wright and jrich? don't the salaries have to match up?


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Not when one team is under the salary cap and can take on more salary than they give up.





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Bulls pick really a bad fit, but best option available sadly.

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Other than the top 3, who would've been a "good fit" there? They obviously don't need Conley. Deng already gives them what Brewer and Green would. They already have Wright in Thomas. I guess you could say Jianlian, but hes more of a jump shooter, and thats not what they need. My point is that I think because the Bulls have no glaring weakness at any position that we over-analyze their "needs." They have the luxury of going BPA, and thats what I think they tried to do.




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atlanta wins because horford/law was the best realistic scenario (and way better than conley/thornton IMO)


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Conley is obviously a risk, but I usually advocate taking risks unless you're already a title contender. I think I would've went with Conley/BPA instead of Horford and then being forced to take a certain position.




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Law is a scrub.


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I know I joke about Dixon a lot, but on a serious note is Law any better than Dixon? Other than "clutchness" I just don't really see what Law brings to the table on the NBA level. Its hard to say that since he was such a good college player, but its tough when you're a tweener. Hes a shoot first PG who is not a great shooter.





Didn't see anyone mention the Wizards, but I'm excited that Young fell. But damn that doesn't fit a position of need for them with Arenas and Butler already there. Antwan is a free agent after this year IIRC, so they could really use a big man of the future. I love the Arenas/Butler tandem but they really havn't built well otherwise imo.

[Vyse]

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1. Dirk
2. Duncan
3. Nash
4. Kobe
5. Lebron
6. Arenas
7. Wade
8. McGrady
9. Yao
10. Pierce
11. Bosh
12. D Howard
13. Melo
14. Gasol
15. Brand
16. Boozer
17. Paul
18. D Williams
19. Kidd
20. Garnett

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lol @ Garnett at No. 20.

Allen beats Arenas, Kidd, Deron, Gasol, Melo, raping most of the above players in PER.

[Assani Fisher]

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lol @ Garnett at No. 20.



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"Heres 20 guys that I would rather have than Ray Allen on my team if all I cared about was winning for next season".....How on earth did you read that and think that I was listing them in order?


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Allen beats Arenas, Kidd, Deron, Gasol, Melo, raping most of the above players in PER.

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I disagree, but I don't feel like arguing with you. I could easily substitute 5 other players in there. Take any 5 from Oden, Durant, Joe Johnson, Josh Howard, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion, Leandro Barbosa, Baron Davis, Al Jefferson, Luol Deng, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Tayshuan Prince, Ron Artest, Kevin Martin, Allen Iverson, Jermaine O Neal, Lamar Odom, Michael Redd, Vince Carter, Andre Igodala, Brandon Roy, or Caron Butler.

There are EASILY 15 or so guys that are definitely better than Allen. He then fits in with the next group of 20 or so players. But saying that hes top 20 for sure is a very hard position to defend.

[kidcolin]

Kidd was one of the most productive players in the league last season.

[Vyse]

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Kidd was one of the most productive players in the league last season.

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He really wasn't, as his D was quite bad and he's not an elite offensive player.

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lol @ Garnett at No. 20.



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"Heres 20 guys that I would rather have than Ray Allen on my team if all I cared about was winning for next season".....How on earth did you read that and think that I was listing them in order?

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Because when people number things, they usually do it in a rough order at the very least? Or, going even further, are cognizant of the fact that they will be perceived as ordering it and will either not order it, or edit their order so it doesn't look like a POS. Otherwise don't number the players?

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I disagree, but I don't feel like arguing with you. I could easily substitute 5 other players in there.

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I could've easily made cases for Allen v a number of other players, but really didn't care enough to do it and I didn't need to do so to prove my point. The point is that in any given season for the past half decade or so, save his random injuries, Allen has pretty much DEFINITIVELY been a top 20 player in that INDIVIDUAL season at any given time. That consistency therefore makes him a surefire top 20 player and a superstar, since every year you have randoms like Carlos Boozer putting up a top 20 performance and then not being able to consistently repeat it. (Hello Andrei Kirilenko.)

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Oden, Durant, Joe Johnson Tony Parker Leandro Barbosa Baron Davis Luol Deng Rip Hamilton, Tayshuan Prince Ron Artest, Kevin Martin Jermaine O Neal Lamar Odom, Michael Redd Andre Igodala Brandon Roy

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I just left in the quote of all the REALLY laughable names to throw in as ever thinking you could back up a claim of any one of these names being better than Ray Allen.

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There are EASILY 15 or so guys that are definitely better than Allen.

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The problem is there really aren't. Once you get past 10 guys or so, no one is DEFINITIVELY better than Ray Allen. They may have a year or so that is definitely better than his year, but they can't do it consistently, and even in that same given year, Allen will still do enough to be top 20 in that year.

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He then fits in with the next group of 20 or so players. But saying that hes top 20 for sure is a very hard position to defend.

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There are what, maybe five players who are currently top 20 players and who have been top 20 players for the last half decade or more?

[Artdogg]

Vyse,

Arenas is better than Ray Allen. Artest is an idiot, but he's also better than Ray Allen.

[Taraz]

There is not one GM in the league who would choose Allen over Arenas, Melo, or Gasol. You can say that he has had a more productive 5 years or something like that, but from this point forward there is no contest.

[Vyse]

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There is not one GM in the league who would choose Allen over Arenas, Melo, or Gasol. You can say that he has had a more productive 5 years or something like that, but from this point forward there is no contest.

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Why do people always make irrelevant absolute hypothetical statements like that? Okay, who cares who they would choose? Ray Allen, by the numbers, is only slightly worse than Paul Pierce. Assuming Ray Allen's performance stays the same and Melo, et al do as well, it's not close -- Allen is better, case closed. No need to derail the statement into something I never said. You're arguing something entirely different and it's irrelevant.