The state of Notre Dame football.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
BigDaddy,

Given that Notre Dame got completely destroyed by Georgia Tech, a team that they solidly outrecruited each of the last 5 years, what makes you think this class won't under-develop and under-perform?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jared,

Apples and oranges. GT returned, what, 18 starters compared to like 6 for ND? GT was a solid veteran team.

To answer the 2nd part of your question, whether CW can develop young talent is up in the air. Due to the huge improvement between 2004-2005, I want to answer with a guarded "yes." If, however, the Irish perform akin to Bill Calahan in NU over the next 2 years (great talent, marginal results) it will be clear that CW isn't capable of taking ND to an elite level, and the Irish must then take the program in a new direction.

[UATrewqaz]

I bash ND every chance I get, but I will give them this nugget, there IS hope.

College football is a different world now than it was back during the 40's - 80's, where the elites ran wild year after year.

Traditional powers have fallen off the map for a decade or two only to resurge strong (USC/Oklahoma for example).

New powers rose (Florida St. / Miami) and now they have fallen off.

Some big traditional powers have been languishing in mediocrity (Alabama) or have completely fallen in the crapper (Nebraska).

College football is very fluid nowadays, but the traditional powers will still have a slight edge when it comes to success and hope for the future.

[damaniac]

Sorry, non-constructive stats post coming. I'm just fascinated with how bad this offense is.

Right now ND is averaging 2.95 yards per play. The stats archive I have bookmarked only goes back to 2000, but no team has finished the year that low. The worst was Rutgers in 2002 at 3.08 yards/play. Now, given their schedule I think ND will pass that. But if they don't, what is the next-lowest total, and when? Anyone have a better archive somewhere?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
whether CW can develop young talent is up in the air. Due to the huge improvement between 2004-2005, I want to answer with a guarded "yes."

[/ QUOTE ]

Please. Didn't Ty show just as much improvement his 1st year over the preceding ND year?

I'd say due to the huge downturn and not even being competetive in any of the games unless someone has a pop warner QB in says more about his ability to develop players.

Still amazes me that people champion a coach who has accomplished nothing.

b

[Franchise 60]

But you Washington fans champion Ty as if he is some amazing coach when he is far from that. Its really quite comical seeing all these Husky fans feverishly hating Weiss as a tool to talk up, and make themselves feel better, about their savior of a coach who is incredibly mediocre.

[shemp]

Ty is getting his chance now. He may or may not wash out.

Weis is getting an opportunity at ND that Ty didn't get. He may or may not succeed.

I think new coaches should get 4-5 years except for extreme situations, and such call into question the people who hired those coaches that need to go.

I think you are confused about the nature of the attack on ND and the support for TW voiced by many of the haters in the thread.

[domer2]

2008 Sched

S06 SAN DIEGO STATE
S13 MICHIGAN
S20 @ Michigan St.
S27 PURDUE
O04 STANFORD
O11 @ North Carolina
O25 @ Washington
N01 PITTSBURGH
N08 @ Boston College
N15 @ Navy (Baltimore)
N22 SYRACUSE
N29 @ Southern Cal

If we don't win 9 games, he'll be gone before the bowl game. If we have 9 wins, and SC gets another blowout, he'll be gone before the bowl game.

He is doing all the right things behind the scenes, his recruiting is top notch for someone who has had no previous experience doing it, and his development of Quinn was exactly what we were hoping for, but his product on the field this year has just been horrendous, and his decision making has been amongst the worst coaching I've ever seen. Whether it's a snowball effect, or he is in over his head, no idea. But 2008 will be the barometer by which he is measured.

We were unranked to start 2007 and many of us considered it a lost season anyway with so few upperclassman, so it's not like we are in Michigan's position of being in the top 5 and then beaten by a lower division team . But, still, the games have just been unbearable to stomach. 2008 better be a huge turn around or he can go back to being an NFL assistant.

[NozeCandy]

I never thought I could hate Tom Brady, but he is the only reason Weis gets recruits.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just a note: Ty's last recruiting class was #32
quit assigning the blame to Ty for Charlie's #40 recruting class



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OK, w/respect to the current senior class (the one you say is #32), it consisted of 17 players only 3 of which are still around and making an impact (Lambert, Brown and Crum). Four guys are on the team but only have roles on the scout team (Jabbie, Ferrine, Vernaglia, Bragg). TEN guys have left the team completely.

7 seniors. What other school in D1 that has such a small senior class?

Did the 2005 class suffer a bit because Weis stayed an extra month in New England? Possibly. But the majority of the responsibility is with Ty. Recruting classes are only finalized in the last month...if you're waiting that long to get anything more than a final one-sie/two-sie player you haven't put in the work you've needed. Right now the Irish have 21 commitments and it's not even November yet (they had 17-18 before the season began, which is where the 2005 class topped out). Assigning Weis the blame for that awful class is like blaming a relief pitcher for an opponent scoring when the starter left the bases loaded.

[/ QUOTE ]

That amount of time is still more than enough to make a splash in recruiting
For instance, Ed Orgeron was able to move Ole Miss up to about #25 in that month. Butch Davis was able to come in last year and nab instant producers (real ones, not the inflated ND recruits) that will have UNC better in 4 years than ND. In a month, he brought in Marvin Austin, Greg Little, Richard Mason, Mike Paulus and some others that weren't even on their list.
When the coaching turnover happens, it's time to come in and recruit and hard.

early commits typically suck to have unless they are the huge 5*/4* guys
it's not necessarily a good thing to have so many commits right now
players can and do change their mind--ND had 3 of its top 5 change in the last week and go elsewhere last year IIRC
a large portion of the better players wait until the very end to decide

it's not a relief pitching mode


also, I'm not sure many understand the recruiting 'game.' A player's stock will instantly rise if ND comes in and says they are interested. The recruiting machine overstates ND all the time. So far, it looks like Weis is pretty poor at scouting, so this inflation is absurd right now.

[Dids]

Semi outside looking in, my impression of Ty is that he's not great, but not really to the level of or for the reasons that bitter UW and ND fans suggest.

Given the state of the program, he was the perfect hire. After "Slick Rick" the alumni needed somebody like Ty, who radiates character and decorum.

UW fans seem stuck in the past a bit. There's an expectation here of a level of preformance that is a lot harder to reach in 2007 (less scholarships, a better USC, a much better UO, etc) than it was in 1991.

I was a freshman in the UW dorms in 94 when "The Pick" happened. I'd never seen people so worked up over a single loss. As a WSU fan from Pullman, I was well conditioned to losing, it happened. People were worked up and throwing chairs, it was insane. I feel like UW fans are never going to be happy until they get back to that level where losing a single game is simply not OK, and just don't think that's realistic.

This seems equally true for ND.

Also nearly everything I've heard points to Weiss just being an [censored], and probably not a good choice to work with kids.