AK, fold this flop?

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, buying in short is a good way to start learning. I think most would agree that your end goal should be to be a winning full stack player. I have no idea what your financial situation is, but if the money means anything to you, you should start smaller and work your way up, but even then, while youre first learning, 50bb's is not a bad way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]
agreed

[Dan Bitel]

I think playing for 50BB teaches a lot of bad habits and will stunt your growth as a NL player.

I think playing withh 100BB at 100NL >>>>>>>> playing with 50BB at 200NL

I'd suggest though moving a bit lower than that...maybe 25NL or 50NL, but in full, and study and post hands on here

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, in GSIH, Ed Miller recommends that all beginners play a short stack, and that by doing this, they can be long term winners, where if they bought in full they would be almost guaranteed to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed recommends this as a learning tool for those new to NL, not as a long-term optimal strategy to beat the game.

I think it's fine if you are using it to get a handle on pre-flop and flop play. Eventually if you want to play teh turn and river optimally you will have to buy-in full.

[Hince]

I played short when I first started and built a roll. It is a good learing tool for the first bit. But in a cash game, there is so much money to be made on the turn an river.

[prayformojo]

It's been a while since I played Ed's shortstack strategy, but IIRC, it's a far cry from the way you played this hand. Doesn't Ed recommend raising by about 10BB and pushing the flop regardless of the board? It seems to me you're playing with just enough, and raising just little enough, that you're not sufficiently cutting off your opponents' implied odds, which is central to Ed's strategy.

FWIW, I don't have the disrespect for proper short stack strategy that a lot of SSNL posters have (ironically, I have little respect for most short stacks, but only because they have no strategy at all). However, optimal short stack strategy is not one that tolerates much variation. If you're going to play it, play it as recommended. If you want to play poker and make decisions, buy in full.

[The.Accountant]

[ QUOTE ]
It's been a while since I played Ed's shortstack strategy, but IIRC, it's a far cry from the way you played this hand. Doesn't Ed recommend raising by about 10BB and pushing the flop regardless of the board? It seems to me you're playing with just enough, and raising just little enough, that you're not sufficiently cutting off your opponents' implied odds, which is central to Ed's strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]
He recommends raising 4-5x the BB and then pushing on the flop when you're checked to or when you're up against a weak hand.

[prayformojo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's been a while since I played Ed's shortstack strategy, but IIRC, it's a far cry from the way you played this hand. Doesn't Ed recommend raising by about 10BB and pushing the flop regardless of the board? It seems to me you're playing with just enough, and raising just little enough, that you're not sufficiently cutting off your opponents' implied odds, which is central to Ed's strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]
He recommends raising 4-5x the BB and then pushing on the flop when you're checked to or when you're up against a weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

After I wrote this I thought that might be the case. Then isn't his recommended starting stack somewhere around 20BB? I'm going by memory, but it seems to me that one of the keys was that you were getting about 1/4 of your stack in pre-flop.

[The.Accountant]

Yes, he recommends buying in for the minimum, so $40 in this case. That's what I did here, but I ended up winning a few pots before this hand.

[Ungoliant]

I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure he says 20BBs, so yes it would be $40 in this case. Over $100 is way too much to even be thinking about playing the short-stack strategy. The flop push is not supposed to be a huge overbet that only gets called when you're behind.

[The.Accountant]

Alright guys, say you have about $60, and a guy with 90 VPIP at your table calls down your AA all in bet with bottom pair.

Now I'm sitting at a table with a cluless fish, and I have a huge stack for my style of play! I can't go south, so what do I do?

Do I abandon this rare opportunity, or try to tough it out with 60 BB?