Strange Top Two Fold

[blah-blah-blah]

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this is awful

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elaborate? this was my initial reaction. however, do you think a 17/13 is playing any hands that make a worse two pair? he's never doing this as a bluff (maybe w/ KQ?). maybe he could have an absolutely retardedly played overpair or AJ but i think his range is heavily waited toward 77/89/JT.

calling and then calling on the river is probably the best but the more i look at this the more I think that folding can't be awful.

[aislephive]

This isn't that bad, but I'd typically call and re-evaluate the river.

[NoahSD]

Yep.. that's a strange one....

[pineapple888]

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Call c/c most rivers.

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The thing I hate about this line is that it doesn't extract the max from worse hands, unless he's on a total bluff.

If we're going to continue, I'd much rather 3-bet the turn, or at least call turn and lead river.

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I'm not so sure about that. He's gonna get real suspicious if you 3-bet the turn here and could very well get away from a worse hand. So look weak, run the clock a bit, call, check the river, profit.

[SABR42]

Well, calling the turn is going to look suspicious too.

Is he really going to value-bet worse after we call turn?

Actually the more I think about it I like call turn and LEAD river. Thoughts?

[pineapple888]

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Well, calling the turn is going to look suspicious too.

Is he really going to value-bet worse after we call turn?

Actually the more I think about it I like call turn and LEAD river. Thoughts?

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IDK seems kinda pointless to me, might as well 3-bet the turn if we're gonna do that, and not give an overpair or whatever the chance to suck out (e.g. with one of the off-cards pairing).

Plus sometimes you are behind and just getting to showdown on the river if Villain gets worried and checks behind is a win in that case.

It just seems like you win more when you are ahead, and lose less when you are behind with the c/c line.

[Keyser.]

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this is awful

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elaborate? this was my initial reaction. however, do you think a 17/13 is playing any hands that make a worse two pair? he's never doing this as a bluff (maybe w/ KQ?). maybe he could have an absolutely retardedly played overpair or AJ but i think his range is heavily waited toward 77/89/JT.

calling and then calling on the river is probably the best but the more i look at this the more I think that folding can't be awful.

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sample is 30 hands, we have no idea if he's 17/13 or not. I'd consider folding if I had like 500 hands and he's a supernit (then I'd still call and c/c river).

[FishSticks]

SABR42 -

I agree with what you're saying about getting value from the stuff we beat. The trouble I see is that with 60 in the pot and 70 behind on the river, is there really room for a bet/fold? I guess I'm just opting for c/c over b/c in this case, and hoping he valuetowns 2pair holdings.

[Panthro]

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Actually the more I think about it I like call turn and LEAD river. Thoughts?

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You calling a river shove? Might as well shove turn then.

[Split Suit]

i personally really like this. villian cant logically be on a bluff here. we donk twice, and the comes alive on the turn? villian isnt calling the flop to take away, and then doin so against a dub-barrel.

i agree we cant make solid assumptions on the player given the limitd number of hands with him...but i think this is still a fold.