frozen like a schoolgirl

[chigua713]

I think you put enough money already PF and F. Good enough. No need to be 3 bet on turn. Sometimes they wake up with a hand too.

[augie_]

standard

[TStoneMBD]

after playing with him alot more after the hand took place, im pretty certain he would raise overs on the flop, but at the time my read on him wasnt as strong so i wasnt sure how confident i was that hed raise.

i think the real question is whether trying to eliminate the button through having the BB raise overs is worth investing the extra .5SB or 1BB when behind. the reason its .5BB or 1BB depends on whether the BB raises his overpair on the flop or turn. the answer to this i dont know, but i havent done any equity calculations to try and figure it out either. i think if both players are on overs theyre probably sharing some.

[The Funky Llama]

[ QUOTE ]
i think the real question is whether trying to eliminate the button through having the BB raise overs is worth investing the extra .5SB or 1BB when behind. the reason its .5BB or 1BB depends on whether the BB raises his overpair on the flop or turn. the answer to this i dont know, but i havent done any equity calculations to try and figure it out either. i think if both players are on overs theyre probably sharing some.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup exactly. Its also possible button is ahead of you or has a hand that won't fold anyway (77?). If he's not they are usually sharing at least one card. It's also possible button has something like A6, which shares the A with a BB holding AK and has a card (6) that you aren't worried about pairing.

My feeling is that if you are reasonably certain he would raise overs, betting is worth it, but if not checking is better.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think the real question is whether trying to eliminate the button through having the BB raise overs is worth investing the extra .5SB or 1BB when behind. the reason its .5BB or 1BB depends on whether the BB raises his overpair on the flop or turn. the answer to this i dont know, but i havent done any equity calculations to try and figure it out either. i think if both players are on overs theyre probably sharing some.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup exactly. Its also possible button is ahead of you or has a hand that won't fold anyway (77?). If he's not they are usually sharing at least one card. It's also possible button has something like A6, which shares the A with a BB holding AK and has a card (6) that you aren't worried about pairing.

My feeling is that if you are reasonably certain he would raise overs, betting is worth it, but if not checking is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I check then I raise for value.

[The Funky Llama]

if you aren't confident that BB would raise overs, I like that better than betting out. Also I would need to know that BB would never 3bet with worse than 99 because I am gonna be making a turn fold to his bet. If you can't make this fold I don't think it is worth it.

If you checkraise and are 3bet, are you also folding the turn?

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
if you aren't confident that BB would raise overs, I like that better than betting out. Also I would need to know that BB would never 3bet with worse than 99 because I am gonna be making a turn fold to his bet. If you can't make this fold I don't think it is worth it.

If you checkraise and are 3bet, are you also folding the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the Button calls then I think we're getting such a large overlay that it makes the check-raise correct IMO, even if we have to call down.

Against a BB range of 77+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo and a Button range of two unpaired overcards >=T, we have about 47% of the pot.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you aren't confident that BB would raise overs, I like that better than betting out. Also I would need to know that BB would never 3bet with worse than 99 because I am gonna be making a turn fold to his bet. If you can't make this fold I don't think it is worth it.

If you checkraise and are 3bet, are you also folding the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the Button calls then I think we're getting such a large overlay that it makes the check-raise correct IMO, even if we have to call down.

Against a BB range of 77+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo and a Button range of two unpaired overcards >=T, we have about 47% of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I realized that I've sort of dodged your question about whether or not we call down if reraised on the flop. I think that we do against the opponent described, as it sounds like he plays fairly badly and may play this way with a smaller overpair (and possibly with just overcards but IMO that in and of itself is not enough reason to call down).

One key part of this hand, btw, is that the Button is as loose as he is. That makes the BB's capping range much wider. Although I'd still probably have raised the flop in your QQ hand, I think this hand more clearly calls for some aggression.

[TStoneMBD]

i think you are right about overlay in this pot but i think its somewhat counterfeited by the fact that i may be raised on the turn by the BB when he has me beat costing me an extra BB. i think the pot is too big and the bb is way too unreliable and aggressive for me to fold this hand if im raised by the BB on any street.